vote Ted Cruz, he'll "gradually raise the retirement age". You'll have to work till 80, how wonderful.
Americans, you are so screwed if anyone of these guys get elected. Cut taxes for the rich, lower wages for regular people, repeal obamacare, and get you working until you die. And people are applauding lol you sheep

White America has no other option. The Republicans will at least be somewhat sympathetic to their situation.

Edited 11/11/2015 04:01:51

haha Trump is a clown, he is funny though, if you view what he says with the right lenses

Trump is too radical, brazen, and tactless to be electable. However, a lot of what he says makes sense and he does have some good ideas. Sadly, everybody is too busy being offended to look at all this with a deeper scope.

Americans, you are so screwed if anyone of these guys get elected.

Tch, and we're any better with the Democrats? Hardly.

Cut taxes for the rich, lower wages for regular people, repeal obamacare

Donald "The Clown" Trump has actually suggested raising taxes on the rich.

I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting we lower the minimum wage, but even if I'm wrong such an agenda would never succeed anyways.

Lastly, Obamacare was a good idea that was horribly implemented. It shouldn't be repealed, but it definitely should be reformed.

Everyone acts as if the Republicans are the greatest and only threat to the middle class. That's only partly true. While most Republicans do favor the rich over the poor, the Democrats are not the shining angels of virtue that they and their media puppets would have everyone believe.

It was a Democrat who signed NAFTA, causing countless of American jobs to go to Mexico (and overseas) and thus allowing what remained of our industry to continue crumbling.

It's a Democrat who's currently pushing for the TPP, which is going to be politically and economically devastating to the average citizen. Yet, we don't hear nearly as much about this compared to other issues. Strange, is it not?

In short, both parties claim to protect the working class, but only a few politicians really do.

Edited 11/11/2015 05:56:42

+1 to Eklipse

hum...there's something wrong here. i am not disagreeing with everything you said. I need some sleep.

Politics makes for strange alliances. Even the most bitter political rivals can usually find at-least SOMETHING to agree on.

Honestly, a lot of the people running for president are just trying to repair the damages the last presidents have left.

A lot of people like to blame the President and his staff for not doing enough. When they really need to be looking is in Congress and the House of Representatives. The moment you have a republican House and Congress, and a Democratic president means the country will have little to move forward on.


Shit, its a surprise "obamacare" went through. Do most people even realize what that does for our country? America the land of the free, yet we never had any form of free medical coverage in our history.


Oh, and look its MGSB.

Edited 11/11/2015 07:01:44

there is a democrat running who voted against nafta and tpp. guess who.

also, more democrats voted against nafta than for it.

jeb bush wants to abolish the federal minimum wage. it is also part of the tea party platform, and republicans trying to get the nomination will have to pander to them.

BUT i do agree that most democrats arent angels (except for bernie, he is def an angel). one of our biggest problems as a country is a lack of more than two choices. and it's our own fault. stop voting for the lesser of two evils and vote for the candidate you most agree with.

honestly, i hope sanders and trump lose the primaries so they can run as independents and finally destroy the two party system.

there is a democrat running who voted against nafta and tpp. guess who.

The only Democrat candidate running that I'll even consider voting for.

also, more democrats voted against nafta than for it.

Bill Clinton had the final say though, and he's still immensely popular in most Democrat circles.

jeb bush wants to abolish the federal minimum wage. it is also part of the tea party platform, and republicans trying to get the nomination will have to pander to them.

I didn't know this. Explains why Jeb is failing so miserably in the polls though. Nobody is going to abolish the minimum wage, Americans would riot.

honestly, i hope sanders and trump lose the primaries so they can run as independents and finally destroy the two party system.

I'd love to see a four-way battle for the White House. It would make the decision so much more interesting.

to be fair, jeb and most tea party people want to abolish the federal min wage and leave it up to the states, but with govs and state houses typically more conservative, this scenario would most likely lower the minimum wage in a lot of states.

i really think dems are more on the side of the working class though. not anywhere near enough to get my full support, but more than republicans. i have worked union and non-union jobs at different places, mostly in the unskilled service industry, and from my experience, if businesses could get away with it they would readily employ slave labor and charge even more for their products. unions help prevent companies from abusing their employees (again, not enough to get my full support, but it's better than nothing) .

it's not a morality issue with business, they hire people to think of ways to make them the most money with the least expense and risk. that's just the nature of capitalism. the strong survive, the weak get eaten. that's why i think there needs to be pretty strong (but smart) regulation. the interests of people, the interests of the nation, basic morality and ethics, etc. are not part of the equation for a corporation. they are trusted with one duty, to make more money for their stockholders, and usually all that messy stuff just gets in the way of profit. of course the humans running things have their own morality, but any kind of moralizing that gets in the way of profit for a corporation is likely to get a person fired.

my point being, dems are for unions and regulation, so to me they are just a little bit better for working people. more thought needs to be put into how to balance raising wages and regulating business while minimizing cost of living expenses and taxes for the middle and lower class, but i think it can be done without deregulation and destroying unions (a typical republican position). we just need smart people who aren't just exploiting peoples' fears and hatred to get into office (a typlical republican AND democratic strategy).

(of course none of this is even remotely possible without fighting the corruption in our system and all this talk is frivilous until that root problem is taken care of)(which unfortunately, in my cynical view, most likely is not possible without a real [non-violent] upheaval of our current political structure)

I'd love to know what is going on here o_O

There's a bunch of Conservatives, Traditionalists and one socialist running for president of a far away land with lots of power.

shyb pretty much summed up the why i somehow agreed with Eklipse, wich is that Democrats overall aren't really rooting for the middle class.

The only idea comming from Trump that isn't crazy in my opinion is when he call out the candidates for being bought by big corporations through their superpac. Howerver, he never told us how he was going to fix this problem, and of course the media turn a blind eye to this issue because they have a lot to lose if candidate aren't funded by billionairs.
If i recall correctly, it was Trump who said that the wages are already too high as it is.(he didn't say that he would lower it though)

I can't really have a constructive opinion on Obamacare since i don't know enough about it, and i don't live in the US, however i do think that health care should be a right for every citizen, and it should be organized through a social program, not deregulated private companies who can speculate on the healh of people. (like pharmaceutical companies do)

This debate was really boring, the candidates kept repeating the same thing, and the moderators were too afraid to call them out on their bullshit because they didn't want to be bullied like in the last debate.
The whole debate can be summerized like this:

1) Cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes
2) Deregulate everything, let the free market do whatever it wants to do, fire all governement agencies that are in the way
3) Let the private sector handle health care, and raise the retirement age
4) Lets spend another trillion dollar on the military, having a defense budget higher than the 10 following countries combine is not enough to be taken seriously.
5) Obama is trash

In my opinion, Rand Paul won the debate, he was the more in touch with reality, he called out Trump on his ignorance of the TPP, and Rubio on military spending. But i don't think this is going to do him any good with the republican base. And saying that the earth is 4.5 Billion years old is certainly not going to help him among the republican voters.

Edited 11/11/2015 17:56:02

the argument that trump is not beholden to corporations is a bit facetious since he is a billionaire businessman. he is not being bought by big business because he IS big business. he is an example of corruption getting so out of hand that the corrupt no longer have to operate behind the scenes. its easy to cut out the middle man (politicians) when you have a billionaire who is already a household name, and a voting public who have already been effectively tricked into voting against their interests.

the reason trump has not put forward a plan to get money out of politics is because he would get skewered for his past political contributions (he did donate to hillary clinton), and he still wants to be able to donate to (buy) candidates if he doesn't win. and if he does win, he is unlikely to do anything about it as president since he probably wants to influence elections long after he stops being president.

i really think dems are more on the side of the working class though. not anywhere near enough to get my full support, but more than republicans. i have worked union and non-union jobs at different places, mostly in the unskilled service industry, and from my experience, if businesses could get away with it they would readily employ slave labor and charge even more for their products. unions help prevent companies from abusing their employees (again, not enough to get my full support, but it's better than nothing)

This is the area where I actually agree with the Democrats. We need to expand Labor Unions if anything, and stomp out this Right to Work nonsense (Fortunately it failed in Missouri, thank you Jay Nixon).

To be honest, I'd love to see the United States move closer to Socialism. Perhaps we should adopt something similar to the Nordic Model for our economic policies.

I'm usually on the Democrat side when it comes to economic issues, but I can't stand many of their stances on social issues. (Reverse that statement for my thoughts on the Republicans)

he called out Trump on his ignorance of the TPP

Trump got the details screwed up, but he's not wrong in saying the TPP is trash. Bernie Sanders as well has stated fierce opposition to TPP. When you have Trump and Sanders agreeing on something it's a pretty big sign....

social issues are messy af. it's really difficult to have intelligent dispassionate debates about them, and nearly impossible to convert people through logic and reason. as i get older i'm finding that i get more tangled up on social issues and more clear headed about economic and political issues. all i can ever say to people that makes any sense is to use critical thinking as much as possible while still following your heart and don't believe everything you read (but keep reading and read about all viewpoints). it's one thing to have a difference in opinion, but to have an opinion based on ignorance is a bigger problem that can and should be solved. (not saying im perfect in this regard, but i at least try to combat my own ignorance, and that's the best anyone can do)

I'll stop the argument. Rand Paul won. Vote Paul or vote 3rd party or write in yourself...do not vote Sanders, Clinton, Bush, Rubio, Cruz, Trump, or Carson.


also "debat" isn't a word.

Edited 11/11/2015 19:32:27

Sanders, Rubio, and Carson aren't that bad.

To rebulican voters / right-wingers: what's your take on this video?

Republicans Put Minimum Wage Workers In Their Place
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKA4gRHLnaE