AOE is another useless clan that is not needed. It is easy to make a clan like this that sucks. That's why I'm still working on making A.D. more.

Will you guys shut it? Guess what? The game stays up with people buying clans!

You should be happy another clan is born, I am.

And I'm betting Fizzer is also.

I always did like you Houston lol

;)

As the new leader of AOE I have no intention of getting involved in a pissing match with anyone or another clan. We will grow, slowly and surely, and hopefully we can lead by example that our clan government is the best type. Hope everyone had a good thanksgiving.

You see Colonel, that's what real leadership looks like. I dare say my apprentice has surpassed you by far in grace and respect

https://www.warlight.net/Forum/121788-rebirth-league-nations

I'll laugh if the Wolves have anything to say about the LN :)

Why's that?

and hopefully we can lead by example that our clan government is the best type.

Ok, fine. AOE might have the most successful WL "government" out there. But I'll never agree that it is the "best type". The best type of "clan government" would be 1 solid, well rounded leader, who can make smart, thought out decisions by herself/himself, without the help of others. S/he would theoretically represent all of his/her clanmates whether that be providing diplomacy games, strategic tournaments, or an active community for their clanmates to enjoy. Clearly, it's very hard to find said individual. There is no such thing as a 100% reliable person, so some sort of "council" must be made. M'Hunters have it, CORP have it, Wolves have it, GG have it, among others, all in different forms. It's a way to ensure you don't have 1 crazy "Marksman-esque" type leader.

This bullshit type of "democratic government" I don't think is good. I don't think it's good because it makes clan members have to contribute towards the clan to keep it afloat. This is bad, because in some cases people are putting forward more than they're receiving. If I'm a person who joined a clan to be provided with games and a community, I don't want to be a fundamental aspect for helping the clan function. I want to make friends and play games/tournaments with said friends. You don't need "elections" to decide the leaders. You need one central form of management to appoint competent leaders positions of power. You don't need a "constitution". Managers should feel to either (dictatorially, if 1, put to a vote if 3-6. Anything 7+ is madness) add, subtract, divide, or multiply rules if needed, and there shouldn't be huge fusses about "Oh no! We can't AMEND the holy constitution! It's not possible the original author of it could have possibly made a MISTAKE in it! We have to make some crazy bill and put it through 3 stages for anything reasonable to happen! Aaaah!"

tl;dr Clan "governments" tend to fail. (E.g: TLW, TRF, etc.) Ergo, they are not the best type of clan management system.

Ox, that's a simple opinion on your part though. MANY others want to be a part of a clan in which "they have the power." In which they get to decide things, and have a say in how the clan is run. Even if the clan has a Council deciding everything, the simplicity of being able to vote for who to put on that Council is a major plus to some people.
Now some people may have a train of thought like yours finding that idea stupid, but those are the people that shouldn't join clans like AOE.

Conservative, I would laugh because we hold one of the oldest clans on the site, which is definitely one of the 3 oldest roleplay clans on WarLight (UN).

Ox I will leave your opinions on clan government to yourself and that is all I can say. I know I can't convince you otherwise. As I said before, we will lead by example and hopefully history will vindicate us. All I can say is that if you want to have power in a clan, if you want a voice in a clan, if you want to go from a new guy on the block to a leader of a clan in a couple of months...you can only do that in AOE. Long live Athens.

I'd say the best WL government is where everyone has a chance to give their input. A few people who are the clan recruiters, they should have MR and also be trusted but the best system is, as I said, where everyone gets a voice.

Ox, that's a simple opinion on your part though.

No, it's not pure opinion. Notice how Wolves used to have this type of government but don't anymore? It's because it failed.

MANY others want to be a part of a clan in which "they have the power." In which they get to decide things, and have a say in how the clan is run.

That is true, but then the people at the top have to constantly rely on the entire community to vote on things, constantly share their opinion on things, and it's needless when you can run a clan successfully without this.

Even if the clan has a Council deciding everything, the simplicity of being able to vote for who to put on that Council is a major plus to some people.

"the simplicity", is a very strange term to use here. It's not simple. When you have clans that are getting larger, it becomes harder and harder to decide who gets in, because the majority required also gets larger and larger. This makes things stressful, because some people honestly don't care who lead them, as long as they have a competent leader. Also, with elections, what if the wrong guy gets in charge?

All I can say is that if you want to have power in a clan, if you want a voice in a clan, if you want to go from a new guy on the block to a leader of a clan in a couple of months...you can only do that in AOE.

That's not true. I joined CORP in May and become a Gunjikomon in July. Note, I technically became a Gunjikomon on the first day, because of Panda's willingness to make everyone a manager, but that didn't happen anymore for about a week after I became one, seeing as the clan got hijacked not longer after I arrived, and Gunjikomon status became a lot more rare thereafter.

I'd say the best WL government is where everyone has a chance to give their input. A few people who are the clan recruiters, they should have MR and also be trusted but the best system is, as I said, where everyone gets a voice.

People can get a voice without a slow, democratic system, that takes a long time for anything to happen, especially considering the size of some clans and the required majority it would take. For example, I sent out self-assessment sheets to the 36 strongest strategic players on CORP, to get their input on what templates they like, and where they most need improvement. Huge amounts of people responded, and we didn't need some crazy democratic election for the management to find out people's opinions on things.

Edited 11/29/2015 16:39:01

To each their own. May everyone find personal success.

I have a lot of respect for my old clan CORP, so I don't intend to publicly criticism the way you guys do business. I would hope you would give me the same courtesy.

Edited 11/29/2015 16:58:47

AOE is the first clan to be named AOE. It is the first clan to be led by JaiBharat. It might also the only clan to have an "Atheneian government" on warlight.

But is it the only democracy where "new people can rise up quickly"? I would not be so quick to say so. For all the talk about "leading the warlight community by example" and the only "democratic clan on warlight", AOE is actually no more democratic than the next ordinary Joe clan. For example in my clan there are no elections, constitutions, or government structure but if you asked any member, none of them would they they were feeling disenfranchised or oppressed. I dare say that is the case with virtually every clan on warlight.

To add to my point on AOE not being any more democratic than the next clan over: 1) Not everyone can run for election in AOE. Canidates for the senate are chosen by JaiBharat. 2) not everyone can vote in the election. JaiBharat chooses who can vote and who cannot. 3) The "head proctor" (fancy title for de-facto leader/president) is not chosen by popular election but is actually appointed by the previous head proctor. basically it's a hereditary position, after the conservative left AOE after a month he appointed JaiBharat as the next head proctor with no election whatsoever. 4) The senate itself has little authority. Many matters are not even brought before a senate vote.

So in conclusion unless AOE actually instills a real direct democracy where a leader elected though popular election is given manager rights, I will continue to find their constant boosts humorously ironic.

The original form of government when I lead was there was a head proctor and a Senate. The Senate was elected by the majority but the head proctor position never was elected in order to keep stability while the Senate at the same time allowed the people to have a say. The head proctor merely enacted what the Senate decided

Don't you love how Colonel mysteriously disappeared once the shit began to fly against him lmao. I don't blame him though. Occasionally when I post something on the clan forums that is extremely unpopular I think to myself " well, that's one thread I will never return too " lol

Homeless some things you have said are true and some are not my question is how do you know all this? Alt? Jai doesn't have the constitutional authority to say who can vote and who can't. He does pick a few of the most active members to run but to me theirs no other way to do it.

did not address my points :P

Edited 11/29/2015 20:51:54