Qi I do not know what is your field of knowledge or how deep you are into the theoretical topic. But "Pure Skill" has always been controversial. I would start pointing and drawing strong line between:
1st Rank: Predictive vs Calculated "Skill"
2nd Rank: Symmetrical vs Asymmetrical "Skill" On General basis I agree Skill should be seen as reduced Luck and Randomness, but it can count Asymmetrical factors as well Blind Factor Unknowns. The question is how far we go or set the Threshold.
Pure Skill is quite strongly formulated and mostly seen as Symmetrical and Calculated!
Predictive is when we guess our opponent actions! Not based on random move, but strategical considering what is his dominant Strategy or optimal action in certain position or possible counter-action. Predictive consists Blind Factors, like all information is available, but not revealed or verified. Like we can see all territories, bonuses etc, but not exactly through fog what is each players accurate income. Or when picking in Manual mode one tends to think where to take income, where to build a counter!
Calculated on the contrary takes into account that every piece of information must be revealed, full income, starting territory. Actions must be sequential by nature to eliminate simultaneous moves and therefore predictive guessing. All must come down to visible calculation. No one says it should be easy, but just visible! Take account chess: rules can be learned under 5-minutes, but to master the game time un-measurable.
Symmetrical is measured in information: For example fixed cards and minimum pieces are symmetrical while Randomized card pieces Asymmetrical. Luck is Asymmetrical. Random move-order is asymmetrical, as Cyclic Symmetrical. Fog with Spy+Recon+Surv can be seen as Asymmetrical game. All hidden cards are Asymmetrical by nature. Although we can guess, that one has X-amount of cards, or Y-were played there, we can´t see it due to Fog.
1) The Picking has troubled me for a while, because although Manual can be seen as Pure Skill it falls apart beyond 1v1 picking. Too much external randomness luck of other FFA players/Teams pick. That´s why I would prefer Equal Distribution (distance calculated+Bonus value) variance model : I hope this concept is understandable. Alternative is what Kain has come up with and I am lucky to have been part of testing it. I encourage to look up what Master of Desaster referred above or let me know if you would like to be part of game?
2) PECs - do you see all cards as that? As far as I understand PECs are something like advantages one can get, while others are excluded from it. Pay-2-win, Freemium. If you speak Cards, but randomized pieces - its Random factor or Asymmetry. If we speak of Fixed Cards, either minimum or initial, then its Symmetrical, but Predicative as we do not know when one plays them.
a) If we speak of attacks on fog and getting/not getting card which is fixed by minimums then this falls straight under Predictive Pure Skill. If we speak of Randomized pieces then this includes 2nd Rank Skill: Asymmetrical. I would not call what you described luck, but "Impact-force beyond action-taker control" usually written as short "Blind Factor".
b) Recon and Surveillance again Predictive Skill Factor.
c) These can be predictive as well, but they more of distortive nature, which shifts already agreed settings. Never seen anything like that to be called skill. I only feel they can be seen Predictive when used with Random order, but Random never equals to skill. Yet I find those cards usable a lot, especially in FFA Random order settings where Cyclic would be unfair. But included in Pure Skill - mistake in highest ranks.
3) Fog best example of Blind Factor, predictive. Simplest to understand.
@SOLUTIONSIf you speak "Pure Skill" as Chess like terms, I would agree with you. Especially on picking to eliminate Predictive-Picking and deterministic game. Pure skill should not include Blind Counterpicks, but Balancing moves that lead to Mid-game where Frontrunner and Underdog gets decided. End-game which decides actual score.
In my opinion there are Two major "Strategic-Skill" concepts.
Calculated Skill -
every piece of information is visible and calculable, not leaved to random nor luck. Preferred symmetrical version! Counts in human actions and game/setting variables.
Predictive Skill (Premise: Needs certain Balance-Threshold in allowed Asymmetry model),
with small amount of Blind Factor, but not created with Luck. Primarily Predictive in Nature of what the Opponent does, but could count in variable of what system/game/settings hold: in warlight-term-words randomized pieces, calculated luck as system action; and Player Picks, attacks, defense, used-cards in Player Actions!
Calculated Pure Skill:
- Sequence Picking, Cyclic Order
- No Luck, SR
- No Fog
- Fixed Cards (Or Minimums without randoms), visible as Deck and visible as Played
Predictive Pure Skill:
- Could be Standard Manual
- Fog Allowed: preferred light, or some variant of this.
- SR/WR
- Luck, but only weighted dependent on previous turn value. Meaning, that each players Total Luck should be close to Normative Curve. If last turn Luck was negative, the chances his current luck would be positive is much higher.
- Cards, could be random pieces, but again same concept as Luck based! Weight, but should be calculated by N-curve.
@Wct
- I would not be so sure that Pure-Skill settings were implemented only for coin-game cause. I maybe mistaken, but I believe the concept was implemented earlier. Secondly it does not need mean that we use Fraud/fake "Pure Skill" or just the aspects to fill the Legal requirements and leave actual Game Theoretical aspects out! It is after-all a strategy game or have I understood this totally wrong?
- True about the "Unknowns" and "Guessing" but Luck is exactly System-determined, I can´t use my Skill-Guessing that way. I have seen Coin/real money games with System-based lucks, where the Weighted-Luck was used dependent on past-turns Value of Luck (as I tried to describe above). Although I do not know how they solved the First-Turn, because this was totally Random.. just further turns could be guessed, estimated due to Weight and cumulative Norm-Curve.
@Strategos
- Yes, managing Luck is skill, but not Pure skill nor predictive. It falls under Risk-management. But it does not have to be primarily Luck (as System Risk), it could be what Qi described above, risk Attacking Fog-Neutral without knowing what you face beyond your borders!
Strategy in broad sense can be a lot of things. In here the question is how we determine it. I agree and would love to play a Good game which at first has understood what it wants to be. 3-Core Aspects of Strategy: Cost-Benefit analysis, Risk-Management, Other-Players actions and impact; (4th force majeure externality).
Edited 2/7/2016 18:53:39
