Stop. Just stop. All folk here know I am not a uber nationalist American, not a imperialist or corporatist, but please just stop. His firing squads and concentration camps were responsible for more than ten thousand deaths. He admitted to killing more than a thousand. There are records of him executing children.

He sank the Cuban economy from being nearly on par with the US to where the Soviets said it was a complete mess. The Cuban average ,income before the communists rose to power and started working on the economy, was superior than France, West Germany, Denmark and Belgium and it went downward extremely quickly from there.

He raped young laborer girls, he is clearly no savior of the common folk so can we just get past this deification of this awful animal?

But... but... but his clothes! Surely you aren't saying that his clothing line doesn't make up for it all!?

Edited 4/21/2016 02:59:21

he is a communist warrior

that s good

filthy commie

FINALLY SOMEONE SENSIBLE! People in latin america tend to consider him a deity, savior among men, despite knowing he's a murderer.

Hell, in here, we have a homossexual congressmen who cosplays Che and idolizes him. I wonder if he knows that Che would enjoy hitting him with a couple headshots for not being straight.

As far as historical socialists go, Che guevara is probably among the better ones to deify. As you pointed out, he killed around 10,000 people, compared to some other guys:

Stalin: 23 million

Mao Zedong: 78 million

Hitler: 17 Million

Pol pot: 2 million

Kim Il-sung: 1.9 million

Edited 4/21/2016 04:28:14

He committed way too many killings by himself to be considered a hero, he admitted to killing at least a thousand at his own hands. There's socialists/communists better than him, like them not this scum.

stop pretending that you care about the ppl who die in wars

All folk here know I am not a uber nationalist American

Well that needs to be confirmed, judging by your last posts.

He sank the Cuban economy

So now you will tell us Cuba was better as an American vassal led by a cruel dictator? Do you think the Cuban revolution came from nowhere?

Poor people of Cuba live better now compared to before when a mafia-like system backed up by the US owned the entire wealth for themselves, so again saying a country was richer before whereas the people was living in worse conditions is completely idiot. This is why GDP is sometimes an irrelevant indicator, compared to HDI and some other more complete measures.

deify Che Guevara

True. You can "deify" Jean Jaurès or Evo Morales instead. Che is more "glamorous" that's perhaps why he is more popular.

Hitler: 17 Million
hitler wasnt a socialist he was a fascist

he killed around 10,000 people

Biographer Jon Lee Anderson, (who spent five years studying the topic) has addressed this matter in a PBS forum stating:

"I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed an innocent. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder."

According to this biographer, the number of people killed by che Guevara himself is close to 10 to 20 (counting execution and death during battles)


Again posting random stuff and irrelevant figures Major? Before posting and sharing your own biased views, do it well and try to avoid being irrelevant.

Edited 4/21/2016 08:56:32

Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson

Companero: The Life and Death of Che Guevara by Jorge G. Castaneda

The Motorcycle Diaries: Notes on a Latin American Journey by Ernesto Che Guevara

Exposing the Real Che Guevara: And the Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him by Humberto Fontova

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/gavinfoster/2009/12/09/so-who-is-this-che-guevara-then

http://www.cubanet.org/htdocs/CNews/y09/enero09/23_O_3.html

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535

http://liberpress.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/mi-primo-el-che.html

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rFE7nTO-iLcC&pg=PA104

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/terrorism/terror-1965.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93United_States_relations

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=326351&CategoryId=14510

Edited 4/21/2016 12:25:11

He killed tens of thousands through his concentration camps and death squads, and he killed at least a thousand folk himself. He said so when being questioned before his execution. Also, jam a fire hydrant up your arse if you say I have a bias problem and don't criticize the US too much.

Major, you are far from being competent to judge his life, compared to someone who spent 5 years of his life to write his biography, and is considered nowadays as the most trustworthy in this topic.
El Che never planned to be head of state unlike Castro, this is one big difference.

And as you are talking about death, should we talk about how Che Guevara was savagely murdered and by whom exactly?

He tried to start a revolution in Bolivia, and he got killed by a firing squad. That's something perfectly sensible to do to him.

Do you honestly think Castro's and Che's Cuba was so wonderful when there were death camps for religious and LGBT folk? When 10% of the population left as refugees?

hitler wasnt a socialist he was a fascist

The specific type of Fascism applied in germany during the 30's and 40's was called "National Socialism". It entailed an opposition to the free market because "All these nasty jews are exploiting it to oppress germans"; So yeah, definitely socialist in nature.

"Nazi" is just an abbreviation of the much less catchy term "Nationalsozialismus".

Biographer Jon Lee Anderson, (who spent five years studying the topic) has addressed this matter in a PBS forum stating:

"I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed an innocent. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder."

According to this biographer, the number of people killed by che Guevara himself is close to 10 to 20 (counting execution and death during battles)


Again posting random stuff and irrelevant figures Major? Before posting and sharing your own biased views, do it well and try to avoid being irrelevant.

Calm down dude, I posted that figure to make him look good.

Edited 4/21/2016 13:11:39

It's rather funny you despise Che Guevara just because he is a socialist. Some people consider him also as an Anarchist (he was kinda Anarchist actually and his Grandson is himself supporting Anarchist groups), and he is far from being Nationalist or anything like it, since he was himself not Cuban but Argentinian, he tried to launch a world revolution without borders that's why he went in so many fronts (Cuba, Congo, Bolivia, etc).

He tried to start a revolution in Bolivia, and he got killed by a firing squad. That's something perfectly sensible to do to him.

You see? That's why I said earlier you were biased in your views, you are unable to admit his assassination was led by the US (the United States government had sent a team of the CIA's Special Activities Division commandos and other operatives into Bolivia to aid the anti-insurrection effort, a CIA operation orchestrated with the help of some very good people such as Klaus Barbie the Butcher of Lyon!). So it is not as simple as you tend to minimize.
Furthermore he wasn't killed by a firing squad, this is how it exactly happened:

"Sergeant Terán entered the hut to shoot him, whereupon Guevara reportedly said: "I know you've come to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man." Terán hesitated, then pointed his self-loading M2 Carbine at Guevara and opened fire, hitting him in the arms and legs. Then, as Guevara writhed on the ground, apparently biting one of his wrists to avoid crying out, Terán fired another burst, fatally wounding him in the chest. Guevara was pronounced dead at 1:10 pm local time according to Rodríguez. In all, Guevara was shot nine times by Terán. This included five times in his legs, once in the right shoulder and arm, and once in the chest and throat

A firing squad? Not at all, I do not see anything like it, I really wonder where you had this info, unless you invented it as the number of thousands of death, this would not really surprise me either.

Do you honestly think Castro's and Che's Cuba was so wonderful when there were death camps for religious and LGBT folk?

And you are the one minimizing what is happening currently in North Carolina saying "look elsewhere it is worse", instead of condemning it, your behavior is a pure hypocrisy.
Look I am not deifying Che Guevara at all, I know his flaws (although there are apparently no glaringly obvious quotes to highlight any hardcore homophobia on the part of Che Guevara, he does allude to a disgust of homosexuality in his memoirs, where upon speaking about a particular individual he notes "the episode upset us a little because the poor man, apart from being homosexual and a first rate bore, had been very nice to us...".), but saying he killed thousands of people is a total lie, and was neglected by many biographers.

“If the nuclear missiles had remained, we would have used them against the very heart of America, including New York City…We will march the path of victory even if it costs millions of atomic victims…We must keep our hatred alive and fan it to paroxysm.”

“A revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate.”

“We will bring the war to the imperialist enemies’ very home, to his places of work and recreation. We must never give him a minute of peace or tranquility. This is a total war to the death.”

Che Guevara was such a good person, regardless of his own views and statements like above.

"All these nasty jews are exploiting it to oppress germans"; So yeah, definitely socialist in nature.

A rather easy shortcut. Hitler hated both socialism and communism so hard that he worked to destroy these ideologies. Nazism, confused as it was, was based on race, and fundamentally different from class focused socialism.
Twenty-first century commentators like to attack left leaning policies by calling them socialist, and occasionally would follow this up by explaining how Hitler, the mass murdering dictator around whom the twentieth century pivoted, was a socialist himself. There’s no way anyone can, or ever should, defend Hitler, and so things like health-care reform are equated with something terrible, a Nazi regime which sought to conquer an empire and commit several genocides. Tbh, the problem is, this is a distortion of history.
Not only was Hitler not a socialist himself, nor a communist, but he actually hated these ideologies and did his utmost to eradicate them. At first this involved organizing bands of thugs to attack socialists in the street, but grew into invading Russia, in part to enslave the population and earn living room for Germans, and in part to wipe out the "evil" commies.

Jon Lee Anderson's book is incredibly biased due to it being cowritten by the Castro Regime, it's useless to say that it's good at portraying him in a neutral light.