ya listen 2 the other noobs

dont join us!!!

Sounds like you are unhappy that I didn't rate your clan higher Ox. I am stating an opinion based on relatively objective criteria

CORP isn't primarily an RP clan at this point, so there are definite limitations to your knowledge and Ox is right to correct you since you are (to some extent) making the same offhand assumptions as a lot of other people.

That said, other large clans have stronger top rosters (based on ladder performance) than CORP does.

Specifically addressing your three points:

1. part of Hydra (former Illuminati) ranked a little higher than Corp last clan league

CORP's made some fairly massive strides since Clan League 7 as far as its player roster (and internal Clan League management) goes. Most of its current very top players weren't in CORP early enough to compete, iirc- and their top player from CL7 (mm3100) is also semi-retired now, replaced by a newer generation.

CORP also had a lead in 1v1 but fell apart in 2v2 and 3v3. There's lot of nuances to this story, and I don't think a solid assessment can be made without having some head-to-head clan wars between CORP, Hydra, M'Hunters, and {101st} using recent rosters. (Regardless of their need, I think these should happen anyway.)

2. that you guys are more focused on roleplay/diplomacy as a whole (from almost everything I have heard so far)

This is the only reason I'm bothering to comment, since it's rather blatantly false.

There's a bit of history to this, but basically- back when I was essentially running CORP (last summer, it's been a while), we quietly shifted toward a "crossover clan" and tbh I haven't really noticed much attention paid to diplo in CORP. Haven't received any diplo invites, and at least based on the top players + the forum activity, there's a much stronger focus on strat than diplo. The dominant subgroup within CORP is basically Scorpio (their strategic side) and a chunk of their diplo side (Ox, oljo, etc.) that's very heavy on just strat games. I haven't noticed any serious effort by clan management to do (inter-)clan diplos on the scale we had 5-6 months ago, but there's a lot of attention paid to ladders, tournaments, and internal/external leagues. CORP definitely takes the trophy for participation in public ladders (although they're behind on things like WGL, imho).

That said, their strat focus isn't anything like what you'd see from an elite clan or the big strat clans; I think CORP is still weak on across-the-board skill- not as competitive outside the most common templates and definitely gets weaker outside 1v1.

If you reiterate your call for concrete evidence, I think it's worthwhile to point out:

a) I don't really have much of a stake here; I'm just contesting your points because- based on my experience with CORP- I think your assessment of its limitations is a bit off and potentially unhelpful to newer players.

b) Traditionally, it's the responsibility of the person making the claims to actually evidence them- instead of demanding that they be believed until someone comes around to rebut them.

c) I honestly don't know what sort of evidence would suffice to demonstrate that CORP is relatively weak on its RP focus. It's hard to prove a negative, after all; all I could show would be links to strat events with heavy CORP participation- but that's already public (e.g., tinyurl.com/infinity-premier and obviously the 1v1 Ladder and Season Ladder). It's already public knowledge that CORP is huge on strat participation/activity.

Edited 4/24/2016 02:23:16

rememer not 2 join us ok

edit: was posted before Vitriol updated his post so out of date :p

Edited 4/24/2016 02:29:33

Basically I'm saying that you're calling something subjective objective, which is wrong.

Also, personally i'd rather not be looked down upon by somebody who wastes time typing 20-30 paragraphs to someone when they do not realise the most basic thing about the person they are talking to x) . pure dense

don't get me wrong, it's good intentions, like. Thing is the way you executed it was so thick like xD

Is this starting from around/after the previous Clan League? IIRC up until then everything I heard was that you guys were mostly roleplay/diplo, and not much aside from... silly posts outside of that afterwards, so my assumption was that the clan had stayed largely the same.

That's kind of the issue. Partly owing to the name and partly to the reality that no one's really well-informed about every clan (after all, very few people are even active in multiple clans- and information is just very fragmented in this community, hence the influx of "which clan should I join" posts because you really can't tell just from the goddamn page what a clan's going to be like) and partly because there was a lot of opposition to building a strategic side to CORP, the image of CORP hadn't really caught up. It came up back when I cared about stuff and tried to recruit people- no one believes you when you say your activity is actually mostly strat and Fizztler just doesn't let you change your goddamn name.

:P It's also why CORP always refers to itself by a specific initialism and never uses its full name.

Since at least last May, CORP's had a lot of non-RP stuff going on. I mean, there's the obvious example of the precursor to IPL- https://tinyurl.com/csldata.

If your claim is that- as of right before Clan League 7, CORP had not much beyond roleplay/diplo, then it's very demonstrably false and there's an intense amount of public information to the contrary.

That said- and I want to reiterate this because I think CORP's done a poor job of fixing the issue- CORP's (ime) far behind M'Hunters/Hydra/{101st} in that most of its strat players' template preferences are fairly vanilla. I also think that CORP's been largely left out of the hidden layer of intermediate-to-elite strat competition (mainly tournaments) on WL.

It's still in this weird limbo where it's able to easily crush any "RP" clan but not quite as strategically diversified/solid as Hydra.


Actually, just to sum up the decline of diplo within CORP:

8 months ago, I was setting up diplos on behalf of CORP between CORP and The Lost Wolves. The easy part was finding the 20 CORP players to put in, and everyone accepted. Wolves were a pain.

Two days ago, I set up a diplo between CORP and TLW on behalf of TLW. Wolves were still a bit of pain, but the hard part now was finding 20 CORP players that would accept. Everyone I found in CORP that was a solid RP player was also much more likely to accept a strat invite from me (based on actual data, since I'd just invited about half the clan to strat games the week before).

Edited 4/24/2016 02:33:34

@Hysterical, Styxie, and Tbest
What I meant was people posting things like below to non-troll clan seekers on the forum

Masters/Turtles
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/144206-clan (nox)
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/143804-market-clan-best-clan (nox)

Darklords
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/144194-looking-clan (buns)
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/142374-looking-clan (buns) (and yes I realize people classify bayern as a troll)
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/132852-best-clan-join?Offset=40 (Lord Jayoko)

Hmm... maybe just Nox tells people to join those two clans... Also another thing I've noticed is that these threads get off topic easily, which might happen very soon if it hasn't started in this thread.

Start from the bottom of the list and try each one till you find one that sticks.

Buns and Nox are trolling afaik and I wouldn't be surprised about Jayko too ;)

Which is why I said to not trust those people ;)

Edited 4/24/2016 02:55:22

(apparently the forums sometimes save your posts even if you accidentally go to a different page)

I could go and pm the leaders of other clans and ask how their clans rate, or I could look for people who are actually in multiple clans, but obviously there will be some bias. Who will want to go to all that effort to go answer what presumably was a relatively short/simple question? Nobody has kept a running list of the different types of clans and their viability as far as I know.

My evidence before was that everything I had heard about Corp before the 7th clan league, including from members, was that they were mostly a roleplaying clan. I also did not know of very many relatively high level players but it is certainly true that I had not looked at the clan really recently, it appeared to not have changed. From what you (Vitriol) has said this appears to be incorrect so I don't mind editing my earlier posts to reflect this. I did know of some of the other stuff, like Infinity Premier league and the like, but my understanding of those were that they were not clan activity things and more the efforts of specific people - apparently information is patchy. If I am wrong then I don't mind being corrected there. (To give an analogy, if a clan member volunteered to keep score of a Clan League division, it doesn't mean the clan as a whole can be considered to really be involved with Clan League.)

Usually people don't make up stuff about internal ladders or what not so just mentioning that kind of thing should imo be just fine evidence-wise. Aside from the other stuff. Likewise, I was (somehow) not aware of the participation factor, that would certainly help qualify. For whatever reason I seemed to only run into a few CORP guys on the ladders, I must have missed them on my particular stretches. :/

You are right that I should/could provide evidence for my claims, but that applies just as much to any counterarguments. I don't mind being told I'm wrong, but I do like to have more to go on than

"gonna drink bleach

also, learn about clans before recommending them."


At least I'm not chest thumping or only talking about a single clan :/


I'm honestly surprised to hear there was opposition to building a strategic side though, given the enthusiasm which some members had for Clan League 7. O_O

Regardless, I'm happy to hear, (err, read?) that you guys have been taking big steps forward. I doubt the more well known strategical clans would have been able to teach the entire market, so to speak, and more competition is not unwelcome. Glad to have had this conversation with you Vitriol ;)

Edited 4/24/2016 03:02:01

Koala has been very helpful. One tip I have learned is that you NEVER want to be the smartest guy in the clan. You should always surround yourself with players above your skill level.

I would be very cautious of listening to the random players. In the beginning they can give you good advice but in general they are bad players. Avoid Diplomacy and Diplomacy based clans. Diplomacy games (aka diplos) are games that drive up your boot rate, get you invested in needless drama that just wastes time that should be spent hammering out your lvl skills in the auto games, and they offer little strategic value or life lessons. Also most diplo players are asshats.

Terms you should know:
GG=good game (its polite to say this at the end of the game but a select few players find it irritating)
BG=Bad game (said by sore losers who don't understand how they lost)
WP=Well played (if you had your skills seriously challenged and still won or if you learned something new from the other player then this is appropriate at the end of the game. Most games are not WP worthy. Only the Epic ones)
GL=Good luck (said at beginning of game as sign of goodwill)
HF=Have Fun (ditto)
Diplo=Diplomacy
RT=Real Time (games or players that operate in real time games)
RT?= real time? (The other player is asking if you would stay online so you can both finish a multiday game at a real time pace)
Loss Delaying=Delaying a game you know you are going to lose in hopes the other person runs out of time he can be online (This is shameful and should be avoided at all costs. If you are 100% certain of a loss then surrender.)
o7=Salute (that thing people do in the military. It is a recognition of respect.)
FTB=First turn Bonus. (A bonus that can be completed in your first turn. It has advantages and disadvantages)
report=report the other player for violating game rules (like cheating, linking to Porn or disturbing videos. These reports are reviewed by Fizzer's super secret police called Mods. If they find that rules have been violated they will forward it to Fizzer with a recommendation for banning.)

Edited 4/24/2016 03:03:17

For clarification, I said I was going to drink bleach in response to OP, not you, if that didn't come across right x)

I'm honestly surprised to hear there was opposition to building a strategic side though, given the enthusiasm which some members had for Clan League 7. O_O

Ironically, the biggest opposition I had (I wouldn't strictly call it opposition as much as concern- I always had to make sure and clarify that I wasn't getting rid of the RP side of the clan) was from one of CORP's best strategic players (actually the only one to crack the 1v1 ladder top 10 so far).


What's interesting is that the other side of Hydra (AWF) was semi-aware/involved with the transition- Benjamin628 was, iirc, the first non-CORP/Olympus (Olympus was a clan we heavily collaborated with when I was running things) player in CSL.

There's actually a whole bit of history to this, but basically CORP is fairly unique among clans right now in that it basically became the clan I needed when I joined (which is another story). xD

You should always surround yourself with players above your skill level.

+1

Good idea Nikolai :D

didn't know the o7 though but thats cool o_o

@Taran - In-game I think you can trust pretty much anyone from Turtles and Masters. Out of game, it probably depends on a variety of factors. I knew Jefferspin will sometimes troll people but didnt know about Buns :p

Also, you must have missed how badly this thread went off topic earlier X'D


(in response to Vitriol's edit -

thats kinda interesting O_O

Well, if you need other sparring partners, I bet some of Hydra would be willing to go at it, not sure if you would need to wait a little or not though depending on the exact format and templates, there is another challenge in progress from 101st and thats still being set up iirc.

:P That's up to Ox. He's basically been running the clan since I quit.

Maybe from the TLW side, although I don't know whether we've got enough players to be worth it right now. Probably going to go through more evenly-matched sparring partners and focus on the fundamentals so we don't get distracted by the more fun stuff.

GDI all them edits in response to eachother. Can't keep up! :'(

(Hope we didn't lose Tsunami in all this)

And now for my own attempt to derail the topic fully, it might be an interesting project for a number of clans to make up a library of their clan histories, it might help solve misconceptions. Great Expanse wrote up one for Illuminati, I think someone in AWF said they had one too though I could be mistaken.

I assume you referred to Angry Koala in your last post? If so thats even more ironic considering he joined Illuminati for a short time.

You should always surround yourself with players above your skill level.

+2 (beat that!)

Edited 4/24/2016 03:14:28

it might be an interesting project for a number of clans to make up a library of their clan histories

That's happening, under a 0 hours contract made by myself. Basically I update when I feel like it x)

And if there is enough demand right now we might be able to arrange something inter-clan ;) but don't try and make it look like I do everything, everyone pulls their weight =p

You should always surround yourself with players above your skill level.

My way of life. +3

everyone pulls their weight =p

Hey I'm not saying other people couldn't do a better job of it, if that's what you mean. :P