Zephao, please try to stay in the context. I was talking about a specific zone, since there is no worldwide free trade.
Then it doesn't count. Promoting free trade in a specific region to lock yourself out of the rest is not free trade. You know who also loves this system and is trying really hard to do it, and because of that, all of south america is broken now? Heh, search your mind, you do.
It can be imposed without war through diplomacy and lobbyist work
Don't vote for politicians who take lobbyist money. Problem solved. But when a politician like that shows up, almost every time the public decides to go with their personal political mindset. See Trump. He doesn't take lobbyist money from anyone other than himself. People don't care because he's an extremist. But the option was there. No complaining. That's how democracy works, Koala.
the current lines and points of the treaty were imposed, since a small group of politicians and lobbyists met in a secret place without asking the people, so this does not sound as an "imposed" treaty to you?
d e m o c r a c y
You don't pick what your leaders do, you vote your leaders so he picks what to do for you. Rethink your votes, and rethink the average european IQ.
Zeph you give an answer that totally misses the point. I was referring to their way to make deals in secrecy and hidden agreements between "friends" or people of influence giving enough money on the table of negotiations, from what I heard about Dilma she used to be an expert in that matter.
She's too stupid to do anything in secrecy. We have quite a lot of politicians that do that, but Dilma can't even try it because she gets caught everytime. See her talk about giving Lula a ministery :P
Again missing the point, I was only comparing Dilma's methods to Eurobureaucrats' that are very similar in many aspects, not comparing Brazil cartels and megacorporations, stop to put words in my mouth I never stated at all.
You're making an awful comparison. Once again, there's a huge gap between "giving all your money away, then taking someone else's money to give it farther away" and "dealing with corporations". They aren't even remotely similar, don't compare them.
So now, Merkel is leftist? Good to know it!
I guess you did not even knew it but Merkel (before the scandal happened) was actually totally in favor of current TTIP terms.
She's a lefty, Koala. If she was anywhere near the right wing, she'd not make the whole country run off the sun it doesn't have, allow bombs to cross the border (and force others to do the same) and not punish the "Sharia Police". Google it.
Edit: Picture I used here was arguably too rough, so making it disappear.So you want to recreate customs and close borders? End the common market (eh FREE MARKET!) and every advancements made in cooperation in various domains, particularly cultural ones? You just sound like 80 yo old cranky people right now or far right supporters, and this isn't a compliment.
You're wasting your time trying to make multiple countries with different mindsets and politicians get along to do stuff. Even if they could agree SOMETHING has to be done, they wouldn't on WHAT should. Good luck making the Visegrad Group, Merkel, Tsipras and Cameron agree on every aspect.
Also, remember, it's not free if it's specifically for an area. Free that stuff up for real before you call it "free market".
Funny you talk about the "free trade embargos" on Russia, since it was mainly imposed by NATO and the US in the leading position. As an example, France was not in favour of an embargo, but you know, François Hollande has no balls, so he bent the knee as usual and s*cked d*** and shut the F up.
I wonder who elected him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I doubt that up to this day, the ministry of baguette still follows the USA around like it's the Cold War. He was either secretly in favor or I have to congratulate your country for their very smart use of d e m o c r a c y...
Furthermore, the current TTIP also would seriously endanger and further restrict trade with Russia, since gas and oil would be provided then mostly by North American nations instead of Russia nowadays, with a preferential trade with Canada and the US.
Well, ain't that great? :I If someone gets outdone, it's healthy competition. If it takes an embargo to do it, you have failed your purpose.
Well, I am Abertzale that's right (it means "patriot" literally), just proud of my culture, but not necessarily in favour of independence x) I just like to argue with mi querido Pablito <3
Oh... I'm screenshotting that.
Again I am totally against the Russian embargo, this is totally unjustified, as it destroys many jobs and people's lives, and waste billions of potential revenues for nationalistic douches (Obama, Putin, Merkel you got it). We are no longer in the cold war area. Making an embargo of weapons and supplies (since France had to renounce a 2 billions of dollars deal from the army industry after the Ukraine civil war, by US demands) can be understandable, what isn't correct is to make an embargo on food supplies, natural ressources and civil technological trade. These methods are from another age and are definitely backwards (similarly the Cuban embargo for decades was also totally backward driven by nationalistic policies again).
Good, we can agree on something. <3
The Eastern Europeans coming for jobs are actually paid a big higher than what they could expect in their own countries, but way less than the common French, British, Italians, Germans etc, and many eastern workers are exploited there. And then some old cranky grandpa rage because they "steal our jobs!", they aren't stealing jobs at all, they are just taking jobs common French or British would not want at all, because it is low paid. You cannot have it all. You can compare it to the situation of the Mexicans and Latinos in the US.
Good, that's another thing we can agree on. That's a good start for free market, just make it world scale.
The UK is led by liberals too (liberal aren't necessarily leftist btw dear Zephao), keeping their privilege is perfectly understandable, but then they have to leave the common European market once for all, vote Brexit if you do not want to lose your privilege, but at the meantime I hope they will also lose their "preferential trade treatments" with Europe. Some people say Britain would be better out of Europe, we will definitely know if they were right or not.
I used the term for a lack of better ones. I know well liberal doesn't equal leftie.
This is a worldwide common pattern sadly.
:(
Irrelevant point Zephao. Newton discovered how gravity works, something that always existed naturally whereas Free trade had to be conceived, and did not exist before.
Bruh... I feel like your brain ran out of energy by the time you wrote this part.
Free trade and gravity both existed MUCH prior to Smith and Newton. Saying free trade didn't exist before Smith is, essentially, thinking something only exists whenever someone shoves it in a book explaining it. Essentially the same thing as saying that in the early 1600s you could float around.
Edited 5/10/2016 15:05:15
