It's not about short term goodgain, it's about folk using logic to see longterm goodgain. A jerk who goes around stealing from businesses is dangerous, best to tell him to stop screw off, and to follow up with force if he refuses.
Ahh.. the classic people are logical argument. Sorry to tell you, but the great depression shot this argument in the foot pretty badly. People became desperate and pulled out of the banks, creating even more crisis, when the rational thing would have been to keep your money in the bank if you viewed it through the long term lens.

Can be paid for voluntarily. Same for the fire department and hospital.

This assumes enough people are generous enough to pay for these things voluntarily. I live in a private sub-division where the road is maintained through a voluntary fund paid by the local residents. Barely half the people pay and the road goes to crap because we have no means of forcing the deadbeats to pay their share of the costs.

Not every human is selfish, but the percentage is large enough that this system of "We'll have people voluntarily pay for everything" is doomed to utter failure.

because ppl do not want ur system

keep living in fantasy land

Also, this. You say you're all about freedom of choice and what not. So what if the majority of people don't want this grand anarchist vision of yours?

Edited 5/15/2016 01:59:02

Daily reminder Bernie Sanders is a Jew.

Voluntary doesn't mean non-capitalist, there will still be doctors who want to help folk and want money. Businesses would of course invest too, no profit if your customers are dead.

The Great Depression was caused and extended by the government. And sorry, humans are logical , very logical, if not, we would still be in caves and having slaves, because short term gain was better than long term gain.

no it was caused by reckless ppl borrowing money and spending and borrowing and then the house of cards fell

Major people aren't logical. Most people are morons and are emotional creatures. Thats why propaganda is so effective, because it appeals to emotion. Like the adverts with starving black children. I don't actually care about starving blacks but those ads make me want to give money, even if its only for a second. Also giving money to blacks is a Jewish trick.

Edited 5/15/2016 02:13:03

The Great Depression was caused and extended by the government. And sorry, humans are logical , very logical, if not, we would still be in caves and having slaves, because short term gain was better than long term gain.
People are logical when they aren't in an economic crisis. The crisis was started by reckless spending and borrowing as stated by waco, and generally agree upon by everyone due to the fact that it all started with the stock market crash. This crash was then further expanded into a recession, and a banking crisis as the people that still had net value in the banks wanted to trade their cash for gold, as everyone was still on the gold standard, which is not economically logical during a recession, as you reduce the funds that can be loaned out, thereby constricting the monetary supply, and thereby constricting the amount of money available for goods and services, and thereby constricting the economy. This in turn lead to the depression, as banks ran out of gold due to their own reckless spending and borrowing, which resulted in basically no actual liquid money, which killed the economy.

More lying from communist Jew Japan.

I don't actually care about starving blacks but those ads make me want to give money, even if its only for a second.

Goddammit, I showed a brief moment of empathy! Bad, bad!

Blacks did it to themselves.

http://mobile.wnd.com/2008/03/59405/

Jew

Pulsey

You are decently intelligent, so I wonder if it's just basic lack of knowledge that leads you to making those assumptions. The reason people do multiple jobs is plain and simple the fact that for 40 years the average salary in the USA hasn't gone up. The poor people that do multiple jobs, do them out of necessity. It's a vicious circle: They can't afford high rent, so they have to living far away from their jobs, transportation costs suck up a fair share of their earnings since they are paid ridiculously low wages. The stress and exhaustion leaves no room for family, selfimprovement or leisure.
Don't take my word for it, read the Washington post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/business/2014/12/14/the-devalued-american-worker/

Next thing: Health insurance gets cheaper when everybody pays for it, not more expensive. Europe is the best example for that. State controlled insurance companies can make bulk contracts, keep pharmacompanies in check and balance expenditures, to the benefit of everyone. Under the current system the USA expends the most $ per capita of all nations for they healthcare, yet the results are catastrophic for an industrialized country. They spend 1.5 times or respectively more than 2 times more than Germany and Japan. Both countries, like many others, have a single payer system and a better healthcare by far.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

Incentives are fine, but policies that allow legal taxevasion and taxbreaks for corporations are not an incentive, they are exploitation. Hell, even the IMF has come to understand that in the end, income inequalty will break the neck of every economy and society, and they can hardly be called libertarian.

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2014/sdn1402.pdf

What is beneficial to society and what is not? Let's not go into that too deep as it would lead us only astray. But you completely miss the point about public funded education. Publicly funded education benefits not only the society as a whole, but also the economy in particular. Exorbitant studying costs not only cause a further social rift through society, further decreasing the possibility of climbing the social ladder, they also directly harm the economy. Students that have high debt lose time to advance their career properly, thus being less useful to society as you put it.

http://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/blog/2013/jan/24/value-of-uk-degree-investment

Your last point is one of the biggest lies in neoliberal capitalism. These "assets" don't work, they just shift power. The trickle down effect is minimal, yet it has been repeated over and over and everyone seems to swallow it. Indoctrination as its finest.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Do you even have an idea how much money is removed from economic circulation because its concentrated in the hands of the super rich? $21 billion. 21 billion dollars that are not used for investment in better education, infrastructure or anything else benefitial to society. 21 billion dollars that are not taxed and are only used to shift power and control over future source of income.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/#5357f60373d3

Myhandisonfire, while there are folk in American level poverty, they aren't really that poor.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g-5rxFDXW4E

Go live in Somalia smedley, see if you like it

Myhandsonfire, really good post, well documented with many different sources to support your points.

Only one correction, you mentioned "21 billion" while in your source they talked about 21 trillion of dollars. I believe this is just an inadvertent mistake anyway.

Edited 5/15/2016 21:06:19

Somalia in the stateless period before the AU and terrorist invasion was tremendously better than before the statist period. After Siad's extreme statist regime fell, thousands returned to Somalia from Ethiopia where they lived as refugees. After the drought , the economy and ranching situation boomed. Out of around 80 cattle traders questioned, only about twenty said they felt that the roads were unsafe or that they needed protection. While there was fighting, the casualties were nearly 100% combatant, and atrocities against civilians were near unheard of.

Guess what happened when foreigners were dumping nuclear waste that was killing folk? Average fisherman formed militia navies and chased them off, and stopped them from fishing the waters too.

If statism was so good, how come when the US invaded Somalia in the nineties, thousands of Somali civilians fought them? How come the TFG is so unpopular?

the federal reserve lack of interference is what led to the great depression.

ironically enough it was their lack of intereference in the financial crisis of 08 that led to it being so big. they cleaned up the mess but didnt prevent it

smedley you have no understanding of economics and even basic human nature

pls go read up on it

statism is so good cus we got like 200 countries that are doing nice and good with it

u know the united states

im eating real good

so r my friends

and u 2

lets repeat this again: NO ONE WANTS YOUR SYSTEM

get over it

Edited 5/15/2016 21:22:34

lol someone's trying to argue that anarchism is the most ideal system