but it is stopping some faithful nut from infecting and killing everybody with his contagious illness since "it's against one's faith", or to cripple one's children, since "it's against one's faith". And tell me where it's even written in the Book or Reading that vaccines are not allowed? They weren't even founded back then.

It's not an issue of faith, and I'm not even opposed to vaccines on principle. All I'm opposed to is forced medication, which is also the case with most people. Only some very fringe religious groups oppose vaccines on religious grounds.

That's not what vaccines do, axiomatically. And frankly, I'll take the risk of government killing off all African Americans, since that's not what's happening in other countries

Yes, it does happen. Germany killed millions upon millions of people in the holocaust using forced medication, and this is only one of many examples of governments committing genocides by administering poison to their citizens.

Who cares? Make the folk great, not the country. I thought of this parable: Trump wants to make America great, Sanders wants to make Americans great, but that's not really true, either way, though.

Having a better economy benefits everyone, and all countries with the worst economies (South Sudan, Burundi, Central African Republic, etc.) also happen to be some of the worst places to live.

Hydraulic cracking is a very hazardous but hard-to-trace deed that could have killed very many folk already, just so that some folk get richer since it's happening.

This is just hysterical propaganda. And besides, even if some people do die due to poisoned water (I've not seen this confirmed anywhere, only hypothesized), it's a lot less than would die without electricity, which is primarily what Oil is used for.

You're against the labelling of foods and poisons and their health risks?

The World Health Organization, the American Medical Association, the National Academy of Sciences, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science have all declared that there’s no good evidence GMOs are unsafe.

Who cares? I don't care about the economy, I care about folk's freedom of movement, and not pretty much twofold standards for those who are American denizens, and those who aren't.

If you don't care about the economic benefits of migrants, then there's honestly no reason to not go with an isolationist immigration policy and just let nobody in. Moral issues very rarely actually affect government decisions in democratic countries, and there's no reason to expect this one to be different.

Edited 5/30/2016 17:31:52

All I'm opposed to is forced medication, which is also the case with most people.

If it's going to save many lives, do it. I won't let some whiner kill someone with his illnesses, or its children. However, if the illness is not contagious, and if the fellow is only choosing for oneself as a grownup, then yes, vaccines can be denied. A fellow has the right to die, but not the right to kill other folk, in my thought.

Yes, it does happen. Germany killed millions upon millions of people in the holocaust using forced medication, and this is only one of many examples of governments committing genocides by administering poison to their citizens.

That's not vaccines. Your argument here is kind of irrelevant, it's like saying to end all core programmes since core bombs are so wrecking, but core medicine for example, it saves lives. Core power, I read somewhere, has the least amount of deaths for each unit of power begot. Saying that core bombs are awful is no pardon to end all core programmes.

Having a better economy benefits everyone, and all countries with the worst economies (South Sudan, Burundi, Central African Republic, etc.) also happen to be some of the worst places to live.

It doesn't do any good for the dead. Safety first, luxury second. America's already got very rich folk, anyway, not as if the economy needs to be bettered at all.

This is just hysterical propaganda. And besides, even if some people do die due to poisoned water (I've not seen this confirmed anywhere, only hypothesized), it's a lot less than would die without electricity, which is primarily what Oil is used for.

Yes, it's not confirmed, it's very hard to trace. Anyhow, I doubt that if hydraulic cracking would stop, electricity shortages would be throughout America. CO2 and CO are bad for folk anyway, it's worse when you wield a hazardous way of getting petrol like this.

The World Health Organization, the American Medical Association, the National Academy of Sciences, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science have all declared that there’s no good evidence GMOs are unsafe.

They're more or less right, it is hard to trace. But read up, before saying such things. I'm a big fan of GMOs, but it's foolish to think they're miracle food without any problems.

http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Health-Wire/GMO-foods-positives-negatives/2015/06/10/id/649812/

Mainly, allergies and accidental breaking of vegetarianism and faith codes.

moral issues very rarely actually affect government decisions in democratic countries

Unluckily, yes. But the grounds don't matter, the deeds matter more.

That's not vaccines.

A vaccine literally just means a substance with an agent in it designed to have a specified effect on the vaccinated.

Your argument here is kind of irrelevant, it's like saying to end all core programmes since core bombs are so wrecking, but core medicine for example, it saves lives. Core power, I read somewhere, has the least amount of deaths for each unit of power begot. Saying that core bombs are awful is no pardon to end all core programmes.

I'm not saying to end anything. All I'm saying is don't force people to have stuff injected into their body unless the consent to it.

Tbh It would be more akin to the government giving you a free car at the expense of getting a quarter inserted into your arm. You should always have the choice to control what the government does to your body, even if it does end up that you also don't get the free car.

In fact, even if it helps everyone else due to the fact that you won't be hitchhiking as much if you just get your own car, it is never justified to be forced to give up your personal freedoms, even in the name of the public good.

It doesn't do any good for the dead. Safety first, luxury second. America's already got very rich folk, anyway, not as if the economy needs to be bettered at all.

Sure, let's refuse to make everyones lives better just on principle. It's not as if there are still 14% of americans living in poverty.

Yes, it's not confirmed, it's very hard to trace. Anyhow, I doubt that if hydraulic cracking would stop, electricity shortages would be throughout America.

Alright then, let's ban some more things based on wild conspiracy theories that are "very hard to trace":

Drinking cow milk on weekdays - This causes aliens to make an earthquake somewhere in the world.

Typing the word "banana" on wl forums - Every time someone does this hitler is one step closer to conquering the world from his secret antarctic & moon bases.

Bobbleheads of iron man - These cause water supplies to be poisoned due to their ridiculous nature.

---

Taking away a quarter of the US oil supply probably won't cause shortages, but it will drive the price of oil up due to us needing to import about 50% more oil than we presently are, and this isn't really too great for america or americans.

They're more or less right, it is hard to trace. But read up, before saying such things. I'm a big fan of GMOs, but it's foolish to think they're miracle food without any problems.

http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Health-Wire/GMO-foods-positives-negatives/2015/06/10/id/649812/

Mainly, allergies and accidental breaking of vegetarianism and faith codes.

From that article:

Food allergies in children under 18 spiked from 3.4 percent in 1997-99 to 5.1 percent in 2009-11, according to the National Center for Health Statistics, though it bears noting that there's no conclusive scientific link to GMO foods.

A vaccine literally just means a substance with an agent in it designed to have a specified effect on the vaccinated.

No, poison is not a vaccine. from wiktionary:
(immunology) A substance given to stimulate the body's production of antibodies and provide immunity against a disease, prepared from the agent that causes the disease, or a synthetic substitute.

I'm not saying to end anything. All I'm saying is don't force people to have stuff injected into their body unless the consent to it.

Ok, what happens when folk die from their denying?

Tbh It would be more akin to the government giving you a free car at the expense of getting a quarter inserted into your arm. You should always have the choice to control what the government does to your body, even if it does end up that you also don't get the free car.

No, a better example would be that you get stinged by a bee, but you and others won't ever get sick again.

Sure, let's refuse to make everyones lives better just on principle. It's not as if there are still 14% of americans living in poverty.

0.00>% Americans live in poverty. "relative poverty" means nothing. The bottom 5% of Americans earn about 20 000 $ each year, which is pretty good and way above poverty line. Don't joke, calling any Americans in poverty is greatly belittling folk literally starving to death in Kinshasa. If you want to make everyone's lives better, than grow better organised foreign help spending. It's a shame that there's enough food to feed 12k million folk on the Earth, yet there're still folk starving. Don't joke about this again. Losing a dollar to save a life is more than worth it.

Alright then, let's ban some more things based on wild conspiracy theories that are "very hard to trace":

There is scientific backing to this, nutritionists will say the same thing, that this is a definite likelihood.

Taking away a quarter of the US oil supply probably won't cause shortages, but it will drive the price of oil up due to us needing to import about 50% more oil than we presently are, and this isn't really too great for america or americans.

Who cares? As opposed to folk dying, that's what you bring up, importing more petrol? And anyhow, clean renewable energies solve that problem, as well. Petrol and core stuff, that's only short-time answers to a long-time frain.

From that article:

Read the rest of it, it would be amiss to talk about the bad sides of GMOs without talking about that there is nothing proven yet.

No, poison is not a vaccine. from wiktionary:
(immunology) A substance given to stimulate the body's production of antibodies and provide immunity against a disease, prepared from the agent that causes the disease, or a synthetic substitute.

It doesn't matter if it's technically not a vaccine. If you give evil governments the power to force their citizens to be medicated by the government, you have the potential to end up with really nasty results.

Ok, what happens when folk die from their denying?

There's very rarely potential to die from refusing to take vaccines. What happens is you get the disease, heal from it, and then never get it again.

The only real risk is that you still carry the disease, so there is potential for it to spread to others.

0.00>% Americans live in poverty. "relative poverty" means nothing. The bottom 5% of Americans earn about 20 000 $ each year, which is pretty good and way above poverty line. Don't joke, calling any Americans in poverty is greatly belittling folk literally starving to death in Kinshasa. If you want to make everyone's lives better, than grow better organised foreign help spending. It's a shame that there's enough food to feed 12k million folk on the Earth, yet there're still folk starving. Don't joke about this again. Losing a dollar to save a life is more than worth it.

It's not as if crippling the economy by getting rid of a quarter of our oil somehow helps people not starve to death in africa. And in fact, since foreign aid is given out as a percentage of the budget, making the country richer actually increases foreign aid and helps these people in need more.

And I'm not joking. These people aren't in poverty by international standards, and I am not meaning to disrespect people who are. However, when you're discussing the United states economy, as we are, it is appropriate to speak in relative terms. Therefore, 14% of americans are in poverty. Not below the international poverty line, as it's likely that even homeless people make more than this. The US government simply defines these people as being in poverty, so that's what I use.

There is scientific backing to this, nutritionists will say the same thing, that this is a definite likelihood.

I'm not buying it. Something like 80-90% of all crops in the US are genetically modified, and it's been this way for a while. IF there were significant adverse effects, we'd know by now.

Who cares? As opposed to folk dying, that's what you bring up, importing more petrol? And anyhow, clean renewable energies solve that problem, as well. Petrol and core stuff, that's only short-time answers to a long-time frain.

You haven't yet provided any sources for your claim that "Fracking kills so many people", and in fact the only thing you've said is that somehow it is the cause of people in kinsasha starving (also without sources I might add).

"Clean, renewable energies" such as solar energy aren't viable as an actual replacement for coal, oil, and natural gas. The reasons are pretty obvious, but in case you aren't getting it, they depend on the sun for producing energy. While this is a pretty great idea, only having power for 8-12 hours a day doesn't seem like such a wonderful thing to me. I'll keep my oil thanks.

Also, Synthetic oil is here, it's a real thing that we actually have the technology to create and are creating to some extent. It's just that it hasn't really been enacted on a wide scale due to natural oil being so plentiful. Regardless, there is a practically infinite supply of oil.

It doesn't matter if it's technically not a vaccine. If you give evil governments the power to force their citizens to be medicated by the government, you have the potential to end up with really nasty results.

Power for vaccinations. I understand what you're saying, and it is a small fear, but the government won't have to ask to do "really nasty result", as you say.

There's very rarely potential to die from refusing to take vaccines.

So you are for vaccines for deathly illnesses, though?

The only real risk is that you still carry the disease, so there is potential for it to spread to others.

Right, so don't inconvenience folk against their will. And also, I get what you're said, that folk with vaccines won't be affected, but that's not always foolproof. At the very least though, folk shouldn't have the right to cripple their children.

It's not as if crippling the economy by getting rid of a quarter of our oil somehow helps people not starve to death in africa.

It's not going to make folk in America starve, that was my point.

However, when you're discussing the United states economy, as we are, it is appropriate to speak in relative terms.

Ok, well, let me put it this way, then. There is no poverty to speak of in America. Relative poverty is just a goal governments set for themselves to make everyone richer. At any rate, poverty is not a problem in America. And if you really cared, you would support welfare, and minimal wage, and socialist builds like that.

I'm not buying it. Something like 80-90% of all crops in the US are genetically modified, and it's been this way for a while. IF there were significant adverse effects, we'd know by now.

No, we wouldn't, I think the article explained, but it's hard to trace. More bad things about GMOs.

https://classes.soe.ucsc.edu/cmpe080e/Spring05/projects/gmo/negative.htm

Very little testing has been done on GM foods.
genetic engineering is a new field, and long term results are unclear
funding only given to tests which show positive results.

You haven't yet provided any sources for your claim that "Fracking kills so many people"

I told you, it's hard to trace. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uti2niW2BRA)

"Clean, renewable energies" such as solar energy aren't viable as an actual replacement for coal, oil, and natural gas. The reasons are pretty obvious, but in case you aren't getting it, they depend on the sun for producing energy. While this is a pretty great idea, only having power for 8-12 hours a day doesn't seem like such a wonderful thing to me. I'll keep my oil thanks.

Are you serious? Power can be stored in batteries. And anyhow, I haven't ever heard of someone being killed by light poisoning. It's well-worth the price in the long-time.

Also, Synthetic oil is here, it's a real thing that we actually have the technology to create and are creating to some extent.

Source. Anything can be made "synthetically", but I think we're a long ways from conventional transmutation. Maybe you mean benzene or something.

Everything takes energy to make and it is lost in one way or another.

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Freaking is already illegal in USA after poisoning rivers, lakes and killing all wildlife in some places.

National programs to clean wildlife will cost more than the gains.

***

Fishing is a big part of the economy and generates as much as petroleum.

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Also, GM foods are bad. It kills genetic diversity. The same thing will happen as in Ireland.
You may also have only calories and miss all the vitamins in GM food.

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Poison is a vaccine.

In large doses, it is bad. Otherwise, it can heal.

---

Synthetic oil takes a lot of energy.

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People in AFRICA are not starving. All the money is somehow used to fund wars. If there would be like 10 years of peace in critical regions (central Africa), everything will be a lot better.


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Nuclear energy is the most clean even when considering the waste disposals.

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The goal of the relative poverty is that there will always be poorer than the rest. It is relative to the mean income of a household.

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OIL IS HARDLY used for electricity.


*******************************************************************8

What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?

In 2015, the United States generated about 4 trillion kilowatthours of electricity.1 About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuels (coal, natural gas, and petroleum).

Major energy sources and percent share of total U.S. electricity generation in 2015:1

Coal = 33%
Natural gas = 33%
Nuclear = 20%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7%
Biomass = 1.6%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Solar = 0.6%
Wind = 4.7%
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases = <1%

Source. Anything can be made "synthetically", but I think we're a long ways from conventional transmutation. Maybe you mean benzene or something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process

Are you serious? Power can be stored in batteries. And anyhow, I haven't ever heard of someone being killed by light poisoning. It's well-worth the price in the long-time.

Currently to my knowledge this technology doesn't doesn't exist yet. While it could in the future, it's not practical to switch completely over to solar power with the idea that sometime in the future we may be able to use it at night.

I told you, it's hard to trace. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uti2niW2BRA)

Well as I said, let's not be banning a method that produces a quarter of our oil on "hard to trace" evidence.

No, we wouldn't, I think the article explained, but it's hard to trace. More bad things about GMOs.

https://classes.soe.ucsc.edu/cmpe080e/Spring05/projects/gmo/negative.htm

Very little testing has been done on GM foods.
genetic engineering is a new field, and long term results are unclear
funding only given to tests which show positive results.

The fact that not much testing has been done (not sure if I actually believe this, but whatever) doesn't really warrant any sort of suspicion. I mean sure there could be some kind of undetectable asymptomatic disease that manifests from eating them, but honestly who cares?

And if you really cared, you would support welfare, and minimal wage, and socialist builds like that.

Welfare disrupts the free market and takes the incentive out of getting a job and actually advancing in the social order. Minimum wages are just a bad idea all around, and are actually harmful to poor people due to companies not wanting to pay 15$ an hour for relatively low skilled labor.

It's not going to make folk in America starve, that was my point.

Having a better economy benefits everyone, and having a worse economy harms everyone. Why would you want to harm everyone when you have the option to help everyone? I just don't understand your position, sorry. Are you just anti-american?

Right, so don't inconvenience folk against their will. And also, I get what you're said, that folk with vaccines won't be affected, but that's not always foolproof. At the very least though, folk shouldn't have the right to cripple their children.

Children are considered to be under the guardianship of their parents until they're eighteen, so this isn't really a big problem.

So you are for vaccines for deathly illnesses, though?

I'm not against any sort of vaccinations, only mandatory vaccinations, a form of forced medication. And no, I'm still not in favor of them for deadly diseases, although some sort of information network for emergencies to encourage people to get vaccinated would definitely be appropriate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process

Skimmed it. This process was invented in 1925, and doesn't seem to have been much advancement since then. Anyhow, even if there was a miracle way to make petrol, it would not outweigh the deaths from it.

Currently to my knowledge this technology doesn't doesn't exist yet.

It's existed in modern form since 1800, when Alessandro Volta made the first electric battery.

Well as I said, let's not be banning a method that produces a quarter of our oil on "hard to trace" evidence.

If it's fully able to kill folk, and it's likely it has, faff petrol and economy, save lives instead.

I mean sure there could be some kind of undetectable asymptomatic disease that manifests from eating them, but honestly who cares?

That's not really the big problem, the problem is symptomatic illnesses.

Welfare disrupts the free market and takes the incentive out of getting a job and actually advancing in the social order.

But it does bring folk out of poverty.

Having a better economy benefits everyone, and having a worse economy harms everyone. Why would you want to harm everyone when you have the option to help everyone?

It's something as petty as more money, against folk's lives. Life over money.

Children are considered to be under the guardianship of their parents until they're eighteen, so this isn't really a big problem.

Are you for child abuse?

I'm not against any sort of vaccinations, only mandatory vaccinations, a form of forced medication.

As I said before, you want to ban something related, but doing something fully opposite from bad wieldings, like banning core medicine since core bombs are so bad.