Things that are not cults:

- Christianity, with all of its different forms.
- Islam, with all of its different forms.
- Atheism, because it doesn't worship anything.

Things that are cults:

- Some word that I don't want to be tracked for, it's root word is an antonym for ignorance.
- Satanism (Different than atheism)

Edited 6/23/2016 02:06:51

Question:

Why do English speakers tend to say Allah - one "A", but Muslims tend to have two "A"s?

>Islam and Christianity have the same roots.

Edited 6/23/2016 17:16:30

Well, actually, they're both "relatively small", since more folk are not Christians than are, and same for Islaam.

When taken together they actually do constitute a majority of people at 54.7%, but even if you take them as individual groups, they aren't small. One in three people for christianity or one in four for islam are not small minorities.

And this is taking a "Not christians and not muslims are a monolothic group" approach. The fact is that there is no other religious group that even comes close to the adherence of either christianity ofrIslam. Currently hinduism comes in at a distant third with 500 million less adherents than islam and approximately 1.1 billion less than christianity, and this is the only one that manages to make 50% adherence of either christianity or islam.

Buddhism is much farther behind, and has around four times less adherents that christianity and a third that of islam, and Taoism and chinto have something like 10-20x less adherents. And those are the only ones that have more than 100 million adherents, since when you go farther down then that it gets a bit ridiculous.

If we're speaking in "relative" terms then christianity and islam are most definitely not small groups, especially if taken together. And in raw numbers, they number in the billions.

even if you take them as individual groups, they aren't small. One in three people for christianity or one in four for islam are not small minorities.

Maybe they're not small, but yeah, they're outnumbered. Relative to other faiths, no, they're not minorities.

Outnumbered ≠ Small, also Minority ≠ Small. To be a cult you have to be a small group as that is literally part of how we define "Cult". If a belief becomes mainstream, it loses it's Cultness.

both christianity and Islam evolved from judaism

If a belief becomes mainstream, it loses it's Cultness.

Agreed. But yeah, Islam's the worst. Mostly because the majority of it's followers still think beheading gays and shooting cartoonists is fine.
Say what you will about the Crusades, but Christians today don't walk into a town and start killing all those who aren't "saved".

And Islam also feels more politically motivated than religious. There's plenty of lines in the Qur'an about killing infidels unless they give you money, which is then used as income for the Islamic State.

kek no they didn't Snoop

It does, Karl. In the Quran and New Testament, Old testament characters and stories are featured.

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David , the son of Abraham (therefore implying that the Christians knew of the Old Testament and gave Jesus the lineage of those important characters)

Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. pretty similar to Genesis 1:27, So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

James 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. (again, the New Testament states Abraham believed in God, as does the old Testament)

Matthew 22:32, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Luke 18:20 and Mark 10:19 both state the 10 commandments, and both say "know the commandments", implying they came before Jesus.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23 Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel”


And for the Quran, 5:44: It was We who revealed the Torah (to Moses); therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the Prophet who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah’s will, by the Rabbis and the Doctors of Law.



In both the New Testament and the Quran, Old Testament Stories are referenced. Not to mention they imply being written before, as both the Quran and New Testament imply that their followers know the Old Testament.

then by that means, Christianity is also a cult. Shots fired.

Also Christianity and Islam do have same roots, Von Jewburg have beaten me to it.

No they don't

Also worth noting two copies of Old Testament scripture have been found before Jesus:

The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Ketef Hinnom.

The Dead Sea Scroll has an estimated creation between 150 BC and 70 AD. The Ketef Hinnom has been estimated to be made from 750-650 BC.

Then what are said verses in the New Testament, referencing the Old Testament and the tenets of Judaism?

Edited 6/23/2016 17:34:31

thanks JIDF but the Jews worship satan.

Islam's the worst. Mostly because the majority of it's followers still think beheading gays and shooting cartoonists is fine.

No, actually, almost none do. While most Muslims believe being gay is morally wrong, and that drawing Mohamet in a bad likeness is also morally wrong, much fewer believe in death penalty for you.

Christians today don't walk into a town and start killing all those who aren't "saved".

Oh, they do, but mainly in Africa and India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

There's plenty of lines in the Qur'an about killing infidels unless they give you money

Killing those that break some laws, yes. You can twist anything to make it like yours. This is why I'm against all dogmatisms - not just Christianity and Islaam and Judaism, but also godlessness, sometimes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYXurzNoE4

There's clear lines in the Holy Writ that are cult-like, telling you to cut relations with those who disagree with you, and you getting a new "father", and it also says that you should never oppose your government, for it is God's destiny to make the government.

Can I add my input?

Majority of Muslims aren't terrorist BUT why do the majority not denounce, hate, hold rallies etc to stop their Muslim extremists? I think even if they don't actually get involved in the terrorizing, they support them.

“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”


― Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Edited 6/23/2016 18:36:56

Oh, they do, but mainly in Africa and India.

The only real example of a christian terrorist group on the scale of modern islamic terrorism is the ku klux klan, which was pretty bad. To put this into context though, they killed around 3400 Africa americans in 86 years, which honestly isn't that much more than the death tolls of single instances of islamic terrorism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura;

Again, they managed to kill 400 people so far, which doesn't even come close to the scale of islamic terrorism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

Kataeb is a Secular party (albeit that is predominantly composed of maronite christians). They are a secular party with secular motivations for their terrorism, not one with religious motivations (such as islamic terrorists).

There's clear lines in the Holy Writ that are cult-like, telling you to cut relations with those who disagree with you,

I can't think of the particular verse right now to quote, but I believe you're referencing a verse that says something like "Don't let false teachers enter your house and eat with you". This doesn't apply to most people, as they aren't actually "teaching" anything. It refers to members of other christian denominations who are openly proselytizing things that are false and calling it christianity. These are the people you're supposed to lock out of your house.

and you getting a new "father"

Calling God a "Father" is just a metaphorical term to help us understand his role in our lives. In truth God's true nature is not understandable to humans, so we can only speak about him in metaphors and comparisons. This doesn't imply that you are getting a "New father", it's just a manner of speaking to help you understand an incomprehensible thing (God's nature) in the best way you can.

and it also says that you should never oppose your government, for it is God's destiny to make the government.

Because political stability is something to be despised I suppose.

(No seriously, how is this a bad thing? The positive difference between african countries which frequently rebel against their governments and western countries which basically never do is very noticeable.)

The only real example of a christian terrorist group on the scale of modern islamic terrorism

Yes, Christians generally live in better off sites and so are more "moderate", however - to say "Christians today don't walk into a town and start killing all those who aren't "saved"." is wrong.

I can't think of the particular verse right now to quote, but I believe you're referencing a verse that says something like "Don't let false teachers enter your house and eat with you".

The line is:

"I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work." - 2 John 7-11.

It says to tell folk who are not Christian, or does not follow the teachings of Jesus, are deceivers and antichrist; refusing a talk with them; more than just bigotry: it's isolation.

Romans 16:17 "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." (ditto)

Deuteronomy 7:1-5 "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations – the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you – and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no deal with them, and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. This is what you are to do to them: break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire." (encouraging violence against nonChristians, forbidding to talk or even think about their thoughts).

Calling God a "Father" is just a metaphorical term to help us understand his role in our lives.

That's what he is now, but back when Jesus was alive, Jesus was the "Father".

Because political stability is something to be despised I suppose.

You should be able to speak out against your government.

"I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work." - 2 John 7-11.

It says to tell folk who are not Christian, or does not follow the teachings of Jesus, are deceivers and antichrist; refusing a talk with them; more than just bigotry: it's isolation.

That's the verse, thanks. The verse doesn't mention just generally anyone who doesn't believe, it mentions "Deceivers who don't acknowledge that jesus christ is come in the flesh who have gone out into the world". "Gone out into the world" implies, as I said, proselytism. The line about "Come In the flesh" isn't actually a condemnation against non christians, but against christians who deny that christ was ever actually a human and is instead just a spirit.

This is actually a huge theological problem in christianity since only a human sacrifice can pay for the sins of humans, thus the condemnation of "They're antichrist, don't welcome them or let them into your house".

(Here's a great video if you'd like to learn more about the historical context for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1ZZeCDGHJE)

Romans 16:17 "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." (ditto)

Again, this is about false christian doctrines. Claiming otherwise is ignoring the fact that in so many other places christians are actually encouraged to talk to non-christians, Probably the most famous example being Matthew 28:19-20:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

---

That's what he is now, but back when Jesus was alive, Jesus was the "Father".

I'm not sure what you're meaning to imply here really, but there are passages in the bible which claim that God never changes.

You should be able to speak out against your government.

In modern democratic governments this does not conflict with being obedient to your government.

Edited 6/23/2016 23:22:45

Also Imperator, do you agree that the New Testament and Quran were created with acknowledging and believing in the Old Testament?