Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.

- US War Department Strategic Bombing Survey

Now can we end this discussion or do we have someone challenging the US War Department's opinion on it's own actions?

That's only because we would have firebombed them. Stop being cucked, find help fast

Are you actually so ignorant? They fucking said that they would capitulate regardless you fucking dimwit.

Pretty much every major general, the war department and the Japanese were in agreement that the nuclear bombings were not needed and Japan would have surrendered.

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan.

-Nimitz

But please tell me how Nimitz meant that more fire bombings were needed.

Smedley's thread on this was not needed

I agree that the nukes werent needed, they were less mortal then the conventional bombing of Tokyo and dealt less structural damage than other normal bombings.

But I disagree that the USSR had no impact whastoever there. Japan was ready to fight till the end, and had millions of soldiers prepared for an
American d-day for Japan,they wanted to persuade the US not to attack mainland Japan due to massive cadualties predicted ~500k predicted by US forces. They wanted to use Russia as mediator of such negotiations.

Russia entering the war ended any peace possibility that wasnt a total capitulation and wouldnt allow Japan to make it's last stand, fighting one superpower is already hard, try fighting 2.

But I disagree that the USSR had no impact whastoever there.

I think they meant that regardless of the Soviets invading Manchuria, the Japanese would have to surrender.

Japan was ready to fight till the end, and had millions of soldiers prepared for an
American d-day for Japan,they wanted to persuade the US not to attack mainland Japan due to massive cadualties predicted ~500k predicted by US forces. They wanted to use Russia as mediator of such negotiations.

Japan was not ready to fight to the end, the Peace Party was growing at a fast pace, many high ranking officers were wanting to call it quits and Japan was not in a state to fight off any invasion. And the 500,000+ estimate is also from Truman, not the military itself at the time, which estimated far lower estimates on how many would die.

We underestimated the ability of our air attack on Japan's home islands, coupled as it was with blockade and previous military defeats, to achieve unconditional surrender without invasion. By July 1945, the weight of our air attack had as yet reached only a fraction of its planned proportion, Japan's industrial potential had been fatally reduced, her civilian population had lost its confidence in victory and was approaching the limit of its endurance, and her leaders, convinced of the inevitability of defeat, were preparing to accept surrender. The only remaining problem was the timing and terms of that surrender.

Remember, this survey was conducted among the Japanese populace and high ranking Japanese military and government officials.

Actually, that´s pretty true. Japan even offered a surrender to the USA, only days before the ultimatum phased out and the USA´s military staff did not accept, because they wanted to test "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" first and needed a testing area. Since they didn´t wanted to contaminate their own nation´s population, they throwed them at Japan which would have surrendered anyways; Even a high ranked US-militarian, some general or such, committed that Japan has already surrendered, however Truman did not accept it; They needed Japan to demonstrate their newly gained power.

japan invading the rest of asia was not needed

A lot of citations needed.

The end of World War 2 was a bad situation, but the casualties would have been horrific no matter which path was picked. It's either kill 200,000 with nukes, or risk 200,000+ dying in more slaughters. It's easy to sit on your moral high horse and say which one is better when you weren't the one who had to make the decision that would kill people either way.

Japan was not ready to fight to the end, the Peace Party was growing at a fast pace, many high ranking officers were wanting to call it quits

Yeah, that's why a sizable chunk of the military brass tried to pull a coup when they heard about a possible surrender.

because they wanted to test "Fat Man" and "Little Boy" first and needed a testing area. Since they didn´t wanted to contaminate their own nation´s population, they throwed them at Japan which would have surrendered anyways

The first nuke was tested in the desert on U.S soil. Additionally, the U.S used several remote islands later on to test nuclear devices. The whole conspiracy theory about the U.S using Japan for a "test" is total bunk, there was plenty of other places to do it.

Edited 7/22/2016 20:53:31

It was, because without Japan civilizing half of Asia they thus helped to built South Corea and Indochinese Nations and Taiwan. The remaining parts of Asia stayed uncivilised, such as North Corea, China, Russia, Australia,etc.

It's either kill 200,000 with nukes, or risk 200,000+ dying in more slaughters

You need proof of this, I have provided quotes directly from generals and the US military itself stating after the fact that this was not necessary and that Japan would surrender without the bombings or an invasion. I have cited books as well, that show the statements about how the casualties would be lower than 500K too.

Yeah, that's why a sizable chunk of the military brass tried to pull a coup when they heard about a possible surrender.

A brigade of soldiers held the Imperial Palace for a night. That's not a sizeable chunk.

The first nuke was tested in the desert on U.S soil. Additionally, the U.S used several remote islands later on to test nuclear devices. The whole conspiracy theory about the U.S using Japan for a "test" is total bunk, there was plenty of other places to do it.

This ^

Castle Bravo contamination[edit]

The unexpectedly large yield, combined with other factors, led to the most significant accidental radiological contamination caused by the United States. A few minutes after the detonation, blast debris began to fall on Eneu/Enyu Island on Bikini Atoll where the U.S crew that triggered the device were located. When their geiger counters detected the unexpected fallout, they were forced to shelter in place indoors for a number of hours before it was safe enough for an airlift rescue operation to be carried out.[18]

After impacting Eneu, the fallout continued to spread across the inhabited islands of the Rongelap, Rongerik, and Utrik Atolls. The inhabitants of Rongelap and Rongerik Atolls were evacuated by US servicemen two days after the detonation, but the residents of the more distant Utrik Atoll weren't evacuated for three days.[19][20] Many of the inhabitants soon began to show symptoms of acute radiation syndrome. They returned to the islands three years later but were forced to relocate again when their islands were found to be unsafe.[21]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_testing_at_Bikini_Atoll



I don't know why test with *huge* nukes. Maybe smaller "mock" models would work as well.
Unless it is to show how much military power you have if you can manufacture super gigantic heavy nuke bombs.

You've cited nothing. Anyone can put something in quotes and call it official. Where's the actual sources?

A brigade of soldiers held the Imperial Palace for a night. That's not a sizeable chunk.

Soldiers backed by high-ranking officers.

Tough they used Japan. It ain´t bunk. It´s reality. Confirmed by the US-military itself.

http://alsos.wlu.edu/information.aspx?id=1153

http://alsos.wlu.edu/information.aspx?id=1153

http://alsos.wlu.edu/information.aspx?id=1153

How many damn times do I have to link this?

Idk, you can link it a hundred times, yo stupid redneck, but I won´t read it, that´s all I know.

Smedley stop shilling for Japan.

JAPAN!!!!