I say - in my opinion he is an alt. I don't accept him. End of story. JSA logic.

and you did not even mention Latnox, who i have suggested. Besides - why do you again base all your opinions on 1v1??? this thing is about 1v1 2v2 AND 3v3.. so teamplayers.. like me for example don't necessarily have great 1v1 records..

Edited 11/16/2013 17:07:59

i give mine opinion:
Green Beret is good for [20] B or C, for sure not A.
If i have to be honest, JSA is not even that good. And his alt/Brother is for sure not better then him.
and say "i am 1-0 with XX, 2-0 with YYY" is nothing IMHO.
but this is only my opinion.
and yeah i think too he is an alt.

Edited 11/16/2013 17:15:36

and also, why is jsa deciding who have to play in A B C? :P

And Gnuffone, assuming you are right about Green Beret, he will have no chance of winning the playoff system.

And yeah, I'm gonna be honest here. I seriously think I am average on [20A] for 1v1. But on team games, I am in the lower 50%. I wouldn't say I'm at the very bottom in [20A] this season at team games, but I'm below the average [20A] participant. In my opinion, there are 5-6 guys I'd bet on against me in 1v1. Dreuj, Teddy, Gnuffone, Dead piggy, Timinator. There are 3-4 I know I would beat more than half the time. There are about 10 that I would say are very close to even with me. In team games, I know 7 guys I would take over me. Jupiter, Mannerheim, Frank, Gnuffone, Falker, Timinator, Fridge. From my experience, I am about even with the rest, and for sure better than 1-2.

This is me being completely honest and unbiased. Not what I can do if I'm on top of my game, I'm saying on average. I was in [20A] last season because I was between 10th and 20th best player of warlight that wanted to compete in [20]. By now, I think Summer looks like she's passed me up, and a couple others might have as well. I am at the point where I would finish below .500 in [20A], but well above .500 in [20B].

And with Green Beret, I think he is surprisingly good. He was not as good as me when we both left warlight but since he has returned, he has gotten much better in my opinion. I have not played him in 1v1 in a long time, but I think there is a good chance he is just as good as me from what I have seen. This qualification process will show if he really is deserving of [20A] or if I overrate him.

And like my brother said, If he was my alt, why would I drop out of [20A] in order to play a qualification tournament?

And I choose because I have run [20] roudn robins for the last two seasons. This saeson I have less power than most, because I am letting the players play themselves in rather than picking someone over someone else.

Edited 11/16/2013 17:22:33

Fridge, you know as well as I that players can be carried on teams. Despite Europe 3v3 being one of my worst templates, I have a decent chance of winning [20A] in 3v3 because of my teammates. It's hard to judge players on team games because you never know when they are being carried or if their moves are completely orchestrated by them.

And I plan to have Fridge and GNuffone help me pick the [20B] and [20C] players.

Edited 11/16/2013 17:47:17

JSA wrote: Why was Yeon so underrated by many people in the past (including myself)? It's because he never proved his skills in the ladder or [20]. He played in the seasonal ladder and won it, and now people realize he's great. Same with Norway in the Nation's Cup. The previous winners were not even ranked in the top 8 by the people's votes! It's becasue their plaeyrs were not well known like others were. You have to give people a chance.

Basically, there are two things to say to this. First of all, even if you do pay attention, it's really hard to judge people's playing strength based on a few games, and you will only have seen games from a small subset of players. So any mention of "the best X players of warlight" as a fact is meaningless and just makes you sound stupid. Surely yes, you can pinpoint some very good players. How many players on Warlight are better than them? Now that is a question nobody can answer.

The other thing to say is that you obviously haven't paid attention when you said I had never proven myself in ladder play; I won all(!) games of the first Seasonal Ladder and I was 2nd in the 1v1 ladder back then. My weakest ladder performance was the 18-3 record of SL2.

I think you'd do well to take a couple steps back and look at yourself and how you present your arguments. Either you claim that your subjective opinion of a handful players is enough to rank everyone (including people you have no idea who are), or suddenly the ones who won before should decide the rules and players with obviously better credentials will have to start at the bottom. Changing one's opinion when faced with better arguments is one thing, but you seem to change your opinion solely based on what you perceive is to your advantage at the given moment, and then create arguments from that. It does not make you look good.

I beat longhouse like 4 times recently does that mean i automatically make 20A?
no longhouse is a great over all player but i find that he allows a middle player like me or Ema or others to beat him often, suggesting that Green Baret should be in 20A is absurd i'd say 20B but i mean thats just me, any who if i actually am invited to 20C which most of the players there are my level Id have some fun

I never paid attention to ladders back then, because I was not a member. Season 1 and 2 and 3 are before my time. That is why I did not pay attention to them. And I know many others think Seasonals are not an accurate display of skill in man of them.

I don't change my opinions on many things, most of the time there are completely different scenerios involved but people don't realize it. There has never been a qualifying thing for [20A] as far as I know. So how can I change my opinion on it?

I am not suggesting Green Beret should be in [20A]. It appears I have misled a lot of you to that conception. I don not believe that. I believe he should be given the chance to compete for [20A] because we don't know how good he actually is.

I think he is actually [20B] level but I am not for sure.

Edited 11/16/2013 18:01:42

I think you may have some difficulties with finding 16 willing to play out of that 19. Even when you add other players mentioned here, it might be not enough.

Argue who should play and who shouldn't once you reach more than 16 eager to play.

Good idea, Widzisz.

Kryzchu, Verzeher, Gambler, CONQUISTADORS, Latnox, and Ultimaratio will also be asked if they want to compete in this playoff system.

Jay you say 'why would I drop out only to try to replace myself with an alt?' or something like that. I can think of a number of reasons, but firstly you haven't dropped out by choice, you are in second last so by the rules of the game are on the cusp of relegation.

Anyway, the reasons are you might want to create an image of a great player untarnished by your previous performance.

Also, an alt gives a significant advantage, particularly if you are as recognisable as yourself. I for one am certain that I would concentrate to fight you better whereas I have been taken off guard by green beret. I know this excuse sounds very 'Jay' and I normally wouldn't say it but I feel it is relevant to illustrate my point regarding why you would maybe try to enter 20 with an alt.

Just saying...

P.S. I am gonna concentrate on every game from now on since I am getting namedropped constantly.

First off, I am not on the cusp of reglation, you have to finish in the bottom 25% two seasons in a row to be reglated. I leave because I do not like un-standard templates and that is what will be used this season.

Next, If Green Beret was my alt, why would I draw attention to the fact that we are connected? I have long said he was my brother, but if he were my alt, I would have never said anything that could connect us together and make people suspicious.

And if you don't take guys in [20A] seriously, who do you take seriously?

And with the PS, good policy, I have had the same problem as you before.

What is [20]?

It's a league of 20 people who are supposed to be considered some of the best 20 players on the entire site. They play competitive RRs and tournaments for fun.

JSA, if you consider them good enough to play off in a tournament to become part of [20A], you consider them good enough to be in [20A], as they may win that tournament. Considering the list for the playoff candidates, you show some that have the qualities of top 100 player, but not a top 20 player, while some obviously show the qualities of a top 20 player. I'm merely telling you that it is quite BS that you would consider a top 100 player, yet blatantly not include any other top 100 players that are arguably better anyways.

Lolowut, In my opinion the top 20 players on warlight are (won't add myself):

Yeon
Gnuffone
Shuai
Fridge
Dead piggy
Dreuj
Falker
Frankdeslimste
JUPITER
Mannerheim
TeddyFSB
Timinator
brisk
Beelzebub
Sweningen
Anonymous
Summer
Marc
EZPickens
Schmidt

There's about 5 others in A League that are right there in my opinion. Longhouse, Old Surehand, Heyheuhei, etc.

But of the guys I invited here, I think you could only make a strong case for 6 of them that they are [20A] level players. That could just be because they are better known than some of the others. I want to give guys that could get in a chance. There is no better way to do this without people feeling like they are left out. If we do voting, unknown players are left out and not given a fair chance. I just try to lead this the best I can.

The players that have said yes:
Green Beret
WarlightMaster
Flyingburrito
ACL Tears
Latnox

Maybes:
Widzisz

No:
Yeon
Verzeher

20 is a joke. When will this shit end and wont take up space anymore on the forum.

I feel like I could randomly pick ten people and 5 would do better than half this group.

Fridge making comments is absurd.

Green Beret you beat me once, not twice (unless you beat me with an alt) and that's the only game you've played with me. Not the best indicator of skills. Winning once or twice against top players doesn't show you're skilled. I'd say a series of 5 is a better indicator :P