Dear Crabs,

There's this story being run round about a tax bill set by the EU on Apple. Apple is a country which legally holds a monopoly in the Republic of Ireland due to a deal which gave certain concessions and dates to prior to Ireland's ascension to the EU.

Due to EU tax law, companies such as Apple have to pay bucket-loads of wonga for simply being American.

Apple is pissed off because they made loads of jobs in Ireland, and they're gonna move to somewhere that isn't Ireland such as the UK because the UK won't be in the EU anymore and won't have to listen to EU [WORD REDACTED BECAUSE FIZZER LOVES GAYS] who have nothing better to do than piss people off because they're morbidly obese middle-aged bureaucrats from irrelevant non-states such as Belgium and hate Russia because their second cousins' best friend's maid once took a taxi from her hotel to a nightclub in Bulgaria and the Russian taxi-driver overcharged her by $2.

And the Irish government is pissed off because they won't win the next election if loads of people go unemployed on their watch and they can't get away with the "Blame-the-British Card" anymore.

And the EU is basically killing themselves because when people realise that quiting the EU will attract big businesses such as Apple, they'll want to quit too and the EU will basically be Germany and a few of Germany's satellites pretending to be the future of the "ever-smaller" world.

So, my point is: Is Bureaucracy getting in the way of the will of the people, and can this problem be solved? If not, shouldn't we just get on with it and forget about the "globalised future" and focus instead on freedom and justice?

Thanks,
Colonel, The Most Popular Bigot On WarLight 2014-15

Colonel, The Most Popular Bigot On WarLight 2014-15

That's debatable. Try "Colonel, Your friendly local bigot." This is at least a matter of opinion and as such can not be proven right or wrong.

Try looking for the complaint forms, in a locked filing cabinet inside a disused lavatory with a sign on it saying "Beware of the leopard," inside a basement with no lights or stairs.

how dare you, you belgaphobic!

I'm not a Belgiaphobe. I believe in the irrelevance of Belgium. It is a necessary part of the global makeup.

I am a simple man. I see post by Cardwell, i downvote.

Apple doesn't create jobs in Ireland, the jobs are in the us, they just pay their taxes in Ireland. That's called tax-dodging and in fact hurt the US.

Thing is, Ireland doesn't apply the Irish national tax level to apple, and instead offer them a way lower tax level than normal companies apply to. Which is insane and unfair; local irish companies will pay way more than apple as a %. UE ruled it was against the law and forced apple to pay the normal bracket of taxes.

None of this is absurd to me, fighting tax-dodging is a good thing. Plus, if apple decides to leave, you're not going to lose jobs, since these jobs never came to Ireland in the first place.

Tax dodgers are heroes; go anyone who wants to evade robbery, the US government deserves not a cent of anyone's money. It won't go to roads, it'll go to bombers and tanks, so you aren't hurting society; you're aiding it.

It won't go to roads, it'll go to bombers and tanks, so you aren't hurting society; you're aiding it.

Actually, out of the whole $3.7 trillion in taxes that the government collects annually, only 16% of it or around $580 billion goes to the military (1).

And honestly, even claiming this figure as being spent on "bombers and tanks" is misleading. The overwhelming majority of this goes to paying military staff, maintaining bases, and building housing for military families (2). Only the bits in the "Procurement", and "Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation" sections can really be classified as being spent on "bombers and tanks".

Overall, those two sections of the military budget come out to around $220 billion, or around 6% of the overall annual budget.

Since the average income in the US is $51,000, this works out to around $5,610 paid in taxes per year, of which $689 will go to "bombers and tanks". Even if you're not okay with paying those $689 for weapons well guess what, it's still a douchebag thing to refuse to pay the other 95% of your taxes that go to other stuff.


Links:

1. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/U.S._Federal_Spending.png
2. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/USA_2010_Military_Budget_Spending.jpg

Edited 9/2/2016 15:52:38

This is not about whether or not the special tax treatment of Apple by the Irish government is morally justifiable. It is about whether the Irish think so. And they obviously think that it is.

So, do we allow an unelected bureaucracy overall the popular elected government of a supposedly independent nation-state?

If you're an SJW and you think that everyone should get their just-desserts in this world regardless of the consequences, then of course you'd love to overrule democracy. But the people won't tolerate it. The fact is that people love liberty. They love freedom. And they hate people telling them what to do.

Actually, out of the whole $3.7 trillion in taxes that the government collects annually, only 16% of it or around $580 billion goes to the military (1).

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN10U1IG

Since the average income in the US is $51,000, this works out to around $5,610 paid in taxes per year, of which $689 will go to "bombers and tanks". Even if you're not okay with paying those $689 for weapons well guess what, it's still a douchebag thing to refuse to pay the other 95% of your taxes that go to other stuff.

Taxation. Is. Theft.

Edited 9/2/2016 16:19:03

Of course democracy isn't based on justice. But that doesn't mean that democracy can't serve a just purpose.

Would you say that overruling a democratically elected government is more justifiable than allowing the government to have authority over its own citizens?

Edited 9/2/2016 16:23:35

I do not engage in the political processes of the state I live in.

However, I do not agree with your presumption that democracy equals evil. Democracy can be a means by which a people are released from oppression. Democracy can be used for good.

The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is a democratic state. The State of Qatar is a democratic state. Both are Islamic countries. Democracy has not brought them stability and security in their respective societies, however you cannot reject them, their leaders or the way they choose to run their countries due to it.

Democracy was not chosen by the majority of the world. It was forced upon them.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN10U1IG

I'm not sure if this is a credible source, but I'm serious, I read like 5 sentences and the article said something like "The military spent $6.5 trillion extra in 2015", and I literally lol'd, like where the hell are they getting 30% of the US GDP from?

Taxation. Is. Theft.

Well no, taxation is taxation, it's the price you have to pay for living in a country and using the services it provides for you. I do agree that there should be less taxes, but honestly it's pretty entitled position to claim that you should get the protection and services that a government offers you and not have to pay for it. That just isn't how economics work tbh.

Edited 9/2/2016 16:45:23

taxation is taxation

Doesn't change that it's theft

it's the price you have to pay for living in a country and using the services it provides for you.

It's the money stolen from you by the feudal lords that occupy the land you're on. They monopolize services to justify their grand thievery.

but honestly it's pretty entitled position to claim that you should get the protection and services that a government offers you and not have to pay for it

Privatize it

Edited 9/2/2016 16:46:54

Well no, taxation is taxation, it's the price you have to pay for living in a country and using the services it provides for you. I do agree that there should be less taxes, but honestly it's pretty entitled position to claim that you should get the protection and services that a government offers you for free.

Rulership is a privilege. It's a trust. If you mismanage your authority, you're answerable firstly to the people you oppress, then to God.

The anti-dodging tax directive of the UE has been voted by the EU parlement, which is elected by the people just like irish representatives are. Also, it's not because my government is elected that I must agree with it giving tax dodges to profitable corporations, I suspect the irish feel the same as me about it.

Unless there's an irish referendum on wether to give Apple tax benefits and not other companies, the decision to give them these tax benefits are as democratic as the one taking them out, as in both cases elected representatives passed the bill. And before you say that the EU shouldnt take decisions for the irish, they also voted to join it.

Edited 9/2/2016 16:56:36

It's the money stolen from you by the feudal lords that occupy the land you're on. They monopolize services to justify their grand thievery.

Nobodies stealing anything from you, if you don't like paying taxes go to somalia or iraq or somewhere else where you won't be forced to pay. If you want to live on someones land and use it, you have to follow their rules, just like if you act like an ass in a bar you get thrown out.

If the rule is you have to pay 11% of your money for the privilege of being allowed to use their land then that's the rule, and if you find this too oppressive you can go to a place with different rules. However, you obviously don't consider it to be too oppressive, since last I checked you weren't playing from somalia.

Privatize it

Privatizing everything is a pretty bad idea, the first one that comes to mind being the fire department. If there is a private fire service, at best there is competition for their resources in a commercial setting, and at worst there is room for corruption since they might like, you know, go around setting people's houses on fire to then charge to put out.

Nobodies stealing anything from you, if you don't like paying taxes go to somalia or iraq or somewhere else where you won't be forced to pay

"I'm not stealing from you, you don't like it, leave your home." - Bandit

If you want to live on someones land

The government doesn't own this land, they have no moral claim to it, and taxes are not voluntary.

If the rule is you have to pay 11% of your money for the privilege of being allowed to use their land then that's the rule, and if you find this too oppressive you can go to a place with different rules. However, you obviously don't consider it to be too oppressive, since last I checked you weren't playing from somalia.

We can change the rules to something more sensible, so no, your "it's da rulz"! argument is null.

Privatizing everything is a pretty bad idea, the first one that comes to mind being the fire department. If there is a private fire service, at best there is competition for their resources in a commercial setting, and at worst there is room for corruption since they might like, you know, go around setting people's houses on fire to then charge to put out.

If a fire department is starting fires to drum up service, hire another fire department.

The government doesn't own this land, they have no moral claim to it, and taxes are not voluntary.

It depends which country you live in. In Britain (and, I believe, in other constituent countries of the Commonwealth Realm) the Crown actually owns most of the land. You can only hold land by an indefinite lease which the reigning monarch may legally cancel at any time.

If a fire department is starting fires to drum up service, hire another fire department.

Completely agree on this one. :)