(I'm not connected to any clans besides Hydra at this point, so I don't really know but...) Is there a general consolidation of elite players in clans? For instance, I sort of thought Clan League was more competitive before, when clans like Blitz and WG had more actives (and Masters was half the size?).

If the better players as a whole tend to congregate into fewer and fewer groups, then reducing the quantity of tournaments will make it harder for less skilled/smaller clans to compete with them. My current impression is that some of the elite clans were barely floating for CL consideration, but not as their own identities and more as alternate teams of alts. So on the one hand, you will eliminate a lot of these potential alt teams if you were to reduce the umber of tourneys per player. It will definitely force clans to have greater roster depth and not rely on being carried by a few players. At the same time though, I don't know if this might really damage Clan League participation. I think I read that a number of teams were struggling to make decent rosters, though I could be wrong there.

The roster increase would probably work, but it would be better if that came with clan consolidation imho. Its not exactly a clan thing, if they rely on what are effectively mercenaries to compete. (I used to see a lot of alt accounts of elite players, often in different clans?)

I don't have anything for/against specific clans, I'm not out to target anyone, and I'm definitely not trying to boost Hydra. I just wanted to point out some potential issues that I'm hopefully wrong about. :P

Edited 8/31/2017 03:16:56

You guys are a bit out of subject, this was already suggested in https://www.warlight.net/Forum/262970-clan-league-10-improvements?Offset=30 (page 2 by myself), and are late on that subject as this has already been adressed by CL leaders https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q7qwbAP0OvX4pC64DjQ5ZoERL4atQJdM1oaIlMZiMOc/pubhtml

I wish you woke up sooner as more voice towards this goal may have helped the cause, which I still think is part of the future of CL anyway, CL bosses just doesn't realize it yet, and seem to think they have to adapt to clans instead of clans having to adapt to CL...

Benefits would be :

- More players involved into CL
- Less players are frustrated of not being allowed to play in CL
- Some players don't need to (leave their current clan and) play for alternative clans any more to play in CL
- Players may play their game quicker and be more focused with less games on their hands
- A more competitive and open CL : a clan can not rule CL with only 6 of the best players of WL any more. They would need at least 9 now
- Grant not only player skills to succeed in CL, but also clan scouting, recruiting, training and loyalty, which should be seen as important traits as individual skills after all in a clan competition

I wish you woke up sooner as more voice towards this goal may have helped the cause, which I still think is part of the future of CL anyway, CL bosses just doesn't realize it yet, and seem to think they have to adapt to clans instead of clans having to adapt to CL...

That's just rude and unfair. Like you mentioned, we had a Forum thread where potential changes were discussed. You really can't complain about no possibilty to voice your concerns.

And it is pretty clear: Large clans prefer less slots than smaller ones. And believe me, it is not in the favor of most clans, if we reduce the number of slots, as then the poaching will get harder.

101st sticks to a maximum of 3 slots per player. This worked out pretty well, no need to change this.

It will always be the case, that those do not get their will, will raise their opinion louder.

All in all, I really like the improvements for CL10.

Edited 8/31/2017 10:48:45

Some clans already had problems with rosters when only 6 were needed. I can almost assure 1 or 2 more clans would drop out of CL if you would decrease the maximum amount of tournament per player to just 2 becaseu this would mean clans having to put down at least 9 players while they only had 7-8 all previous seasons and don't really have the option to increase this either.

I think that might have been the reason MotD and Beren also decided on keeping it 3 tournaments maximum per player. I can understand MH vouching for less due to the fact they have a strong players all around but likely lose some games due to having 3 slots instead of 2 where they are willing to go for.

Since there is already made a decision on this matter i won't go on further into this.

Mike you are insulting again in case you didn't realize.
Also, you made a big deal about poaching. What do you think will happen if top clans don't have 9 active players who are willing to play cl? Masters have enough players just in case someone wants to make an example with masters.

once again someone from MH propose some general rule that would benefit MH the most. If one did not know better, one could be lead to believe that MH are afraid that can't cut it otherwise

I don't see where making a suggestion is being rude, unfair or insulting.

@Krunx I can see you disagree, while Ben and Koala agree. I wish a poll, involving 1 vote per clan, was done to see what clans actually want, like in a democracy.

@Waka ofc without notice clans would suffer, but there would be some notice. And MH has nothing to do with my personal opinion and suggestion, I could be in any clan or clanless I would post the same thing, even in a small clan btw.

@MOD I know Masters have increased their depth now. And anyway where in my suggestion do you see any name in the benefits ? My goal is to serve the interest of what should be a league of clans in my eyes. Right now, clan tasks like having depth, training, scouting, are not represented in current CL format, and I feel this is missing to value clans, let alone this would serve the whole community.
And no, I doubt this would affect poaching. Clans don't wait to need to fill a spot to poach, they do it or not if and when they feel like it.

@Njord see answer to Waka. I'm not even a CM in MH btw and I didnt talk about this with my clan. Is it still possible to express a point of view without involving your tag aside your name nowodays ??

Anyway, I guess I'll leave it to another season.

Edited 8/31/2017 15:13:16

Id like to point out all the benefits Mike listed were just the same 1 benefit really :D
(except the last one which is kind of unrelated but nvm)

I did not read all the suggestions for the CL but there are surely ways to talk to people...Anyways. The suggestion was mostly made as a way to somehow improve the parity in the higher divisions. Masters for example would probably do well with their top players (MotD, MoD, Timi and Qb, at least my impression of the best of Masters) playing only 2 tournaments instead of 3, as it would have given the opportunity to other very good masters to step-up and represent their clan as well. I can see though that only 2 tournaments per player could be very hard to do for some clans like 7th Heaven for example, hence why some clans would be against it. I just felt that a minimum of 6 players per clan to play Clan League is really not representative of the real overall strength of a clan, particularly if the clan is relatively big.

Edited 8/31/2017 17:17:01

Limit of 2 tournaments per player could be quite troublesome in case anyone needs to be replaced. A clan could now field a 9-player line-up and replace someone with other players mid-season. After that change the clan would need to have 11-12 players for the season for decent safety.
Maybe it would be too big of a change...
I don't see how is this relevant to this thread though.

It is a thread about clan league C but almost nothing is happening here (few updates, few comments about the games, etc.)....

Edited 8/31/2017 18:14:23

The only good thing for Clan Forums is this discussion... If we have to make a "CL Thoughts + Random comments" thread then it's just stupid.

New Clans have it tough and time isn't kind to them. Measures to make CL reasonably a bit faster would only be fair to new clans.

The thought that it takes 9 months to finish 11 tournaments where each team has to play 6 games is just bizarre to some. Of course clans in the A won't care how long it finishes but care about results but Bish/Cish leagues have a time problem. The long time means your squad has to constantly evolve, This is main challenge. Keep up with the times or drop dead. Don't evolve = You die.

Dropping of clans isn't bad thing. Probably gives a bit more power to the A clans since they suck whoever is good out of the dead clans which in most cases is 1/2 players. But it just speeds up the leagues.

The real league is keeping your clan, Clan League fit on the pitch and as much off the pitch. Developing + Recruiting.

Clans dropping haven't so they fall behind and again die.

Then there are clans like [NL], Poon Squad, FBG and bunch others that don't care about results, have weak scores in all tournaments and still play xD
Maybe you are overthinking it.

Edited 8/31/2017 19:03:51

A two template limit would be a disaster. The idea that it'd make clan league more unpredictable or even is just laughable. Off the top of my head I can think of maybe 5 clans this would benefit. Every other clans performance would drop off quite considerably, and in some cases the clan may struggle to field a lineup at all.

I played for TJC in CL9, and we only had 5 players who could compete in clan league, the rest of the clan had little interest in strategy at all. Two of our players basically retired in clan league, a two template cap would've been the death-knell in our promotion effort (which I'm sure a lot of you would have loved to see :D)

Clans like Turtles, GG, FC(rip), ONE (?), VS and Sninja are all Div A and B clans which have either limited numbers or a small concentration of skilled players. When you look at the qualifiers, the problem is even more pronounced every clan in division C would have struggled with this rule excluding possibly Hydra.

We've already seen a few clans die recently, why expedite the process?

The way I see it, Mike is just bitter about not being able to make the MH roster xD.

Maybe we can go back to 4 then :D

@Mike, not all of us were really very involved in Clan League aside from playing the actual games! D:

Something Benoit said stuck with me a bit. "I did not read all the suggestions for the CL but there are surely ways to talk to people...Anyways. The suggestion was mostly made as a way to somehow improve the parity in the higher divisions. Masters for example would probably do well with their top players (MotD, MoD, Timi and Qb, at least my impression of the best of Masters) playing only 2 tournaments instead of 3, as it would have given the opportunity to other very good masters to step-up and represent their clan as well. I can see though that only 2 tournaments per player could be very hard to do for some clans like 7th Heaven for example, hence why some clans would be against it. I just felt that a minimum of 6 players per clan to play Clan League is really not representative of the real overall strength of a clan, particularly if the clan is relatively big."

This is a very fair point.

My understanding is that the higher tier clans want to force more competition from the clans in question, specifically to avoid being carried by a few players. I think this is a completely legitimate goal. At the same time, some of us are worried that other clans will drop out due to an inability to field enough players to compete. I do wonder if poaching might increase further if more players are given the opportunity to play for strong clans, but then again - people have a tendency to float around anyway.

How about a compromise?

AFAIK most people aren't as concerned about clans like Blitz and other elite clans that might be dying. These clans, as opposed to the small elite ones. Its primarily the weaker clans in lower divisions. So what if, to compete in (for instance) Divisions A and B, the limit is 2-3 tournaments/player (assuming one of these works better for you guys). For divisions lower than that, the maximum is 4.

Yes, its still possible for an alt to help carry a lower tier clan up past where it belongs, but if alts can instead play with their mains in a more challenging setting, I think there is severely reduced risk. Additionally, lower tier clans might be less disadvantaged by poaching from higher tier clans.



I don't expect my idea to be considered for the next Clan League if the format was already decided (I don't actually know lol, crunched for time here). I'm hoping that we can maybe find a way to keep the disparate groups happy. (On the off chance someone thinks I'm suggesting things for my own benefit, I really only volunteered for ONE template this CL. So this change wouldn't have affected me either way).

Edited 8/31/2017 21:44:54

Hysterical it was just my point of view, not higher clan's point of view. Some clans in A and B like some pointed out would have too much a hard time with a max of 2 tourneys per player.

Edited 8/31/2017 22:00:28

BTW CORP would be one of those clans that would actually profit from that change.

The way I see it, Mike is just bitter about not being able to make the MH roster xD.

Lol right, I have never asked to play in CL, I already can't cope with 2 ladder games. I'm really not into MD.

And I don't see why we think which clan would profit or suffer from this as this is not the point IMO, plus all clans would be in the same boat, only some of them would have to adapt which would be only a matter of time.
No the point is how to improve CL, make it more interesting, challenging, and look more like what CL should be and what it should reward : gather 6 of the best WL players and rule the league thanks to them, or grow and train a group of skilled players to compete against other squads ?

@ Plat

The thought that it takes 9 months to finish 11 tournaments where each team has to play 6 games is just bizarre

Not sure if you suggest that 6 games is too much, but if so then I would agree. I suggested to reduce by one the number of clan in each division and add divisions in order to faster the league, which as declined. Instead the idea of force start through a schedule has been opted, but this may imply slow players to get burnt out with too many MD at once if they fail to play faster (which is often not by choice but by way of playing).

About clans dying (Blitz), I'm wondering if the new format of dropping from B means start from 0, which can be humiliating, isn't what killed the clan ? I for one preferred the previous format. I feel more clans would play in CL and more importantly would stick to it, instead of thinking "this season we can drop out and play the next one, we'll only lose 1 season", when previous format kind of forced clan to stick to CL to avoid dropping more than 1 division, so losing more than 1 season.

Just a few thoughts.

Btw it's quite funny how the same thing said by someone in MH, NWO or Hydra results in very different reactions. Anyway nothing new here!

Edited 9/1/2017 00:28:23

It is how the people say things rather than the tag clan of the people saying such things...If you speak to people like they are trash with arrogance, people will usually react accordingly...

Edited 9/1/2017 00:31:24