This is a new thread to discuss poaching only, so the talk is appropriate.

I still don't understand why people think poaching is bad. Are you implying that in a given elite clan...if some of their players retire, they are not allowed to add anyone from another clan? They should just get smaller until they die, or find someone not in a clan (from my experience, most good players not in a clan will never join one)?

OR, are you saying that it is ONLY allowed if the player contacts the clan and asks to join? The problem I have with that is that the player will still be leaving the 'non-elite' clan, so how is that any better? Either someone is happy in their current clan or they are not. Asking if they are happy does not change that.

You basically want elite clans to not say anything in hopes that your players will be ignorant to other opportunities (and not realize they exist). I hope you don't have kids you raise that way.

We don't operate that way in WG btw. If people want to leave, they are welcome to. We discuss things like poaching (as many have gotten offers lately). Everyone is open and honest, and everyone has a vote in what we do. We operate in a democracy, I just break ties.

If someone is an up and coming player in a clan with a 'dictator' who doesn't want you to know you can be wherever you are happy, feel free to contact me. If you are happy, then don't.


Now MH can be mad at me too :)

I am sorry but you guys (except ChrisCMU) seem only good to take the piss and bully MH aren't you ? What is your problem with MH ?

And does MH actualy poach ?

Our last 20 recruits :

- 6/13/2017 : Ysayell1 (was clanless)
- 6/6/2017 : PanagiotisTheGreekFreak (was clanless)
- 6/4/2017 : RogueNikolaiKrogius (former MH, was clanless during his break of WL)
- 5/18/2017 : Kelevra (was clanless)
- 5/7/2017 : Krys (former MH, was clanless during his break of WL)
- 4/27/2017 : BlitzKrieg (former MH, was clanless during his break of WL)
- 4/20/2017 : Legacy (former Tranquility ; he approached the clan on his own)
- 4/1/2017 : BlackBart (former MH, was clanless during his penalty from MH council)
- 2/13/2017 : Berenbossen (was clanless)
- 12/31/2016 : Poop Sandwich (was clanless)
- 12/5/2016 : homosovieticus (was clanless)
- 11/11/2016 : Cluster (was clanless)
- 10/5/2016 : Wolfer (was clanless)
- 9/29/2016 : Kornel_PL (was clanless)
- 9/17/2016 : Maayan (was clanless)
- 9/1/2016 : DangleSauce (was clanless)
- 7/19/2016 : iliadaset (was clanless)
- 7/18/2016 : 9025201729 (was clanless)
- 5/2/2016 : hobo (was clanless)

Now, could we do the same with your clans and compare ? Let me guess, error 404 / you don't care.

So far MH has managed to progress as a clan by recruiting and developing prospects. We feel approaching members from other clans not nice. We are shocked when we hear a member of MH has been approached by another clan. And we are devastated that it may happen. Yet, so far, it hasn't happenned. It seems MH like some other clans does a good job regarding loyalty to the clan.

However, invitations sent to our best players to leave MH are growing, and we can tell MH is not alone in this situation, some other clans having less chance in keeping their best assets. Therefore, both for clans community and CL competition, and not especially for MH sake, poaching should be limited.

But, wait, let me try another guess. You are not interested. You haven't suffered any loss, you think it can never touch your clan, while you are happy to poach players of other clans. All what matters is your own clan and its interest, not others, and not morale. And because rejecting the idea is not enough, you feel necessary to mock people initiating the suggestion.

Well we can be glad history was not made like that or creativity would have never existed and we would still use rocks to make fire.

Edited 6/13/2017 17:19:41

Mike do you need more proof than what farah sent? Your list just shows you're bad at poaching, not that you're doing it

Sorry but when you guys claim to be the Angel clan the good fighting the evil godforsaken devils such as poachers when yourselves are instructed to engage in this behaviour. I can't take you seriously.

I've had players robbed off too. But again you are facing the same problem as the rest of the clans do. Just to hear the what is at this point bitching is irritating and now when people are annoyed and you guys claim to "bully MH" it really is pathetic.

"Master" clan is not even elite.

@Mike

I would quit the rage and look at this from a logical lens. Poaching is rare. It does not happen often, and when it does happen (between established clans), it gets noted. With enough time, effort, and hard work, the loss of players due to poaching can be easily overcome. M'Hunters itself proves this. Frankly, the loss of players is minimal, and only happens when a player appears ahead of their time in a clan, such as the case with pardon99 and FCC. FCC only has had two successful poaches in its recent history. (And we even got one player back!) Certainly, some of our players still get offers from other clans, but as long as they decline em, I don't see what the issue is.

Also:

Now, could we do the same with your clans and compare ? Let me guess, error 404 / you don't care.

Is a great example of two logical fallacies in one sentence.

Edited 6/13/2017 17:30:45

If any of you M'Hunters want to be poached, you know who to call ;).

I really want to visit the M'Hunters this summer!

I applaud you for keeping track of history of your recruiting that detailed, though. But 20 recruits in more than last 12 months, including former members coming back after being inactive doesn't seem to speak well of a mass clan that has 70 members, does it? CORP took in as many in 2017 alone I'm sure; though, unlike M'H, we are dirty poachers sucking in players from clans like Blitz and GG.

Doesn't the person/player have the ultimate say of joining or leaving a clan, unless he/she is kicked? So why are all discussing this calling each others as poachers?

Mike -

What is the point of that list? You are contending that MH Hunters is going to Division A, based on internal growth, and not taking people from other clans. Yet only 3 of those players you listed actually played in the CL (mind you, they did VERY well, and deserve praise):

Cluster, 9025201729, hobo

You should have just listed those 3 as examples of internal growth, and not tried to extend the "poaching is bad" argument.

pretty sure the mocking is happening because your so whiny and this all seems like MH was in a love relationship gone wrong, and cant accept that there former lover has moved on. Mike life is just uncertain,even if we institute forced marriage it won't change that

Edited 6/13/2017 18:08:34

Poaching is a subject which I would rather not write about. The reason why is because it's actually silly that poaching is even discussed and seen as a problem. If a clan leader wants to poach someone, then I don't understand why others would become jealous of that. The interferer between the poacher and the poached is the real problem. It's like when an employee wants to go higher up by getting hired by a manager who will pay 200% the salary of what he previously earned, but his ex employer doesn't want that and interferes.

Conclusion: The real problem is the interferer who's jealous of the poacher and the poached player.

Edited 6/13/2017 18:05:26

I will not react to the new remarks as this is just total non sense once again, waste of time and out of subject.

I feel we are forgetting how this discussion arrived and original subject has been diverted : it started in CL improvement suggestions. One of them was try to limit poaching, only to keep CL competitive for every clan, by allowing lower clans to benefit from their effort (recruiting, developping, and holding talents) and progress, vs clans holding divisions A (and B) seats for a while.

And if no blame towards poaching was ever made originally, as this has never been disallowed whatsoever by WL rules (which does not include anything about morale), CL panel has a chance to contribute to this goal and making CL more challenging : not by penalizing clans poaching, but by penalizing players failing to show loyalty to their clan.
Now, penalty suggested was 1 whole season benched before being allowed to play CL for the new clan, but this could be discussed further, for example capping those players to 1 template.
Also, this would not prevent poaching, for those who like it, it's not supposed to. It would only lower it, and make players think twice before changing clans. Clans which are not... well whatever, let's say socks, and deserve some respect.

There was nothing about whining, bitching, love affair, any Farah issue and I don't know what else. Those came from your creation, and always towards the same clan member(s). Either we try to debate in a constructive way, or we end this now and I can carry it on with ChisCMU -and a few others- in private as he seems the only one to show constructive arguments and respect in his posts. Is this really too much to ask, without some clan war taking over every thread ?

Edited 6/13/2017 22:00:58

would you try to explan in which way it is not moral behavior to poach?

That's out of subject but since I mentionned this myself it's only fair to explain if you are interested.

It seems quite common sense to me but if regarding clans it's not clear enough, I'll try to use other examples. But first of all, keep in mind that if something is not disallowed, doesn't mean that thing is ok with morale.

In soccer, some clubs feel morale require other clubs to contact the club owner of a player and reach an agreement on a transfer fee before discussing terms with the player. I see you coming, WL has no contract involved. Well that's not the point. The point is if clubs are not disallowed to contact players before their club owner, morale would require them to contact the club first.

In politics, there are abuse of system which are not known, so technically not forbidden by law, but are still against the morale. In my country, new laws are currently being discussed to prevent recently discovered abuses. Until we find new ones that population doesn't know of yet.

Anyway, this is it for me. I think I made the point I wanted to make, I wish anybody supporting this idea, outside of MH ideally, would express themselves. It does seem this is a bad idea according to current reactions, so I'll leave it there. But I'm still convinced this is the future of CL eventually, we may just not be ready for it yet. :-))

Edited 6/13/2017 22:19:48

you dont explain it at all, you just comes with two different examples that shows the that there is a difference between what is legal and that it does not make something right by default(morally). i get that, what i was more hinting at, was why you think this is morally wrong?

Edited 6/13/2017 22:38:06

Mike, do you know how many CL Master clan had won? 0. Since your argument was developed around the idea of domination of Master clan; it is kind of meaningless in that sense too.

It's morally wrong not towards the player involved, but towards his original clan. We can agree that it is assumed that every clan does not want to see any member leave for another clan.

Now from this statement, because the clan doesn't want to lose his player, and even though the clan has no right on the player, it was that clan that spotted the talent, recruited him, maybe developped his skills further, and probably enhanced the player experience on WL.

For all these reasons, respecting the clan wish seems what morale is here.

Now the question is : would morale be "violated" by the predator clan, or by the player agreeing to change clan ? Well, since my original suggestion doesn't care about the responsibility, and is not about the morale in first place, but about enhancing loyalty towards clans to serve lower clans interest and chance during CL seasons, I don't feel the need to get a headhache thinking of this further. If you want, fortget the morale aspect, and stick with the subject, "CL as a fair competition for every clan", or "how to make CL more fair than it is", considering strong clans start with strong advantages already : not only better talents, but also stronger popularity of the clan.

Edit : roux, I missed that indeed, thus can only agree with you here and congrat Masters for the remarkable job achieved. But I don't know how many clans have ruled Division A with 80% win rate in the past. Also, you just convinced me more that my suggestion may be too early, we'll have to see how clans evolved in the future. Reminder : most of you think clans don't last, other clans emerge. I feel Divsions will remain the same with a few exceptions only, and I could bet money on next CL's winners right now. That's not criticizing anyone.

Anyway, this is a lost cause already, nvm. gg ;)

Edited 6/13/2017 22:58:36