I did give a reason... for one, I don't trust the clans impact on non-members for FFA's and other multiplayer games. I'm sure plenty of you would be honorable and not let the clan affiliations interfere but there are enough that wouldn't so as to pose a problem and impact game outcomes and enjoyment.

And I haven't been 'hating' because it's something I don't plan to use... I have been 'hating' because I think the other higher-voted topics merit attention before this. Had you been advocating the 18th ranked option I would say that the leagues UV merited attention first due to its higher vote total. I would have this stance even if you were advocating something I had voted for on UV.

Richard: The topic is to discuss this idea. Whether there are other idea's you think more people want is irrelevant. Lets discuss this idea for it's merits and drawbacks and leave everything else to Fizzer.

So, other than clans impacting FFA matches (which can already happen, regardless of the system) what other drawbacks are there to having this system?

What it comes down to though, is that UV is not absolute. Fizzer has implemented low-vote options because he doesn't like them, added hundreds of functions that were never on uservoice, and ignored many in the top ranks of the UV list. I believe (not 100% but I remember this from somewhere) that Fizzer has said in the past that he doesn't want the game to just become a "user-controlled" setup, because it's a recipe for failure. That's why he calls UV "Feedback" and not "vote for what will be implemented"

in other words, UV is meant to be proposals from players, not a system for players to implement what they want. He listens to feedback but in the end it's his game not ours. I'm not telling him to implement clans, just giving my opinion and looking for some feedback from the community on my more specific ideas for the clan setup.

@Richard: The FFA impact would wind up being lessened if you could identify the clans doing it by not joining games with them, which is a lot easier than trying to identify individuals doing it, so I fail to see why you are so opposed to the clan system.

And if the clan members join en masse (or individually) after I have joined the game? What option do I have then?

There is also the impact on tournaments. I, for one, am not big on tournaments but they are certainly popular. Now consider that individuals may act differently in a tournament setting to ensure that one of their clan is the winner of any game and thus ensures the clan's success. Thus the best player doesn't win but the most popular one does.

And yes, these issues can already arise. However, an increase in clans and members makes these issues more prominent.


Add in the fact that any game I have played in the past with a strong clan/league presence have usually become less enjoyable due to them. My interest in those games wane in large part due to the clan wars and inevitable bragging and complaints that come along with them. While I may not be the standard, I am sure there are plenty others like me in this respect.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but IMHO, games with clan-members are not much different than ones without. On top of that, REGL isn't a very competitive clan, more casual unless it comes to clan-matches. in tournaments, most clans try to play together on teams anyway. Most tournaments are usually 1v1 or XvX anyway, so you can't really help anyone but yourself win...unless it's a game between two clan-only teams, in which case one will win regardless. In the case of REGL at least, as I've said, we'd rather beat each other than strangers.

I've actually found that in FFAs with clan members I tend to team up with someone else from the game to attack my clan-mate becuase it's more fun.

Yo Rich!

If you're so against clans why'd you join this game?

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=1965320

Interesting

Again, just because you are honorable in handling it doesn't mean that all will be. I think everyone has seen deceptive or underhanded practices on here so why would those be limited to outside the clans?

Another issue is that having such a forum would negate the FFAs where PMs have been turned off. Clan members will be given an unfair advantage in any non-PM FFA due to this.

sry, wrong game ^ please disregard that comment

I joined that game? That's news to me...

Imho, I think that Fizzer should Implement a way to add in a clan 'tag' just to allow players to more simply change to other clans without actually modifying their names "*As some vets are reluctant to -ever- change their name*" but beyond that, I see most clan functions as -currently- things to be done outside of the game, by people interested enough to do it..

nevertheless, I have no strong opinions either way on this matter

UV it's not democracy, it's to listen what people think about. That doesn't mean that Frizzer will implement the idea by the number of votes, it's just a way to see what people would like to see implemented. For example... when i asked if it would be possible to implement the main music to the website as he did with the flash version of WL, he did that without voting or anything else, he did because he found it a good idea.


I think Eagle made a concrete propose that i agree with, but regardless with that, i think that you could just say that you are not agreeing with, explaining why and not criticize the entire clan system and accusing the actual and future people of clans to cheat in FFA (that's possible even if i'm not a clan, i make 2 accounts and voilà! And what about the aim of FFA? The winner takes it all, as Abba sung...so there is no point of "cheating" in a FFA game since only one will win that)


I personally think that it would be a great feature that i have been expected for so long, which would add more fun and competitivness to the whole community, order to the actual existing clans and new opportunities for those which would like to creat their own clan.

exactly, FFAs without PMs are useless anyway. you could make a "chat game" with a person from the game and use that to talk about the other game and team up. And as Red says, using multiple accounts is also undetectable by players. People who want to cheat on FFA games will do so regardless of clan affiliation. Besides, my clan already has a "chat game" permanently open for all of us, the problem with this is that our clan now has 24 members, and is still recruiting, meaning we're out of room in that game.

What I'd like to see is more singleplayer maps being uploaded, but that is probably unprofitable for Fizzer and if other players would share theirs with me they might not be as balanced as I want them to be. Sigh.

As for your suggestion, and ignoring your debate "against" the other ones on the list, I am not sure what this would add. You already identify clans by their names and perhaps the only thing it would stop is people no longer making accounts with that clan name while not being an actual part of the team. I don't know how long it will take to implement this, but if Fizzer really wants to, I see no reason to say no against it. It may not be very positive, but I see little negative issues with it. Clan members joining FFAs and ganging up on people is the same as friends doing just that. Except in the former case they'll make a bad name out of their clan and it is more assured they'll be at least suspended and removed from the clan.

So, yeah, I somewhat support. As long as it doesn't mean Fizzer will be spending less time on other issues I'd deem more interesting.

Darkruler, there have been single player maps put out in the forums and in private games before...

If clans were made official Fizzer could easily put software in to prevent 2 or more clan members joining a FFA game. It isn't a major hurdle.

If the clan feature was ever introduced into warlight perhaps Fizzer could introduce a win ratio team average limit to prevent the best players joining up and dominating.
Or without that once enough clans are in place have leagues and seasons as in time weaker players become more savvy and will challenge the best anyhow.

@Dark: The biggest additions would be a more formal structure, an easier way to communicate, set up games, and differentiate clans, and a formal clan page showing rosters, records, etc.

@raver: I'm not a fan of either of your first two options. Under your first proposal, what if REGL wants to make an FFA with just REGL members? (we do this often) Under your second option, Things would be a mess for setting up games, especially when it came to tournaments, and I don't see any upside to it. The only thing it would effect would be not allowing friends who are both good to play together....which is bad for the community. As to your third option, that's a long way off in the future if this does get formalized.

Along the lines of Raver's suggestions, I propose my own. There could be 2 options added to the pre-reqs for custom games: 1-no clan members, 2-no two clan members from the same clan.

Eagle, Imho 2 should be changed to *no two teams can have clan members from the same clan* which would equal the same thing in FFA's, but still allow Clans to play together, which is a prime reason to having a clan, I think.

I agree Perrin, as long as it's an option and not mandatory.

Fair point, I was just suggesting ideas to solve the FFA teaming up from clan problem that will arise and some more of my own.

I would still like the no more than 1 member from a clan as mandatory but with an option for all members from a clan to join FFA's so you can still play your own. I for one will never play a game with 2 members of a clan in a FFA game.

Perhaps the easiest way would be for any game to be specified as a clan game so any amount of clan members can join a FFA or team game and keep the original settings for non-clan games.