I'm talking about 3 vs 3, 4 territory, 5 armies.

The goal in this map is simple :

- get big bonuses ( like austrian monarchy)before the enemy and crush the opponents
- get small, efficient bonuses, stop them from taking big bonuses and crush them

So, if you look at the map from these basis, there are 6 zone of interest :

- 4 big bonus that can be taken in few turns ( sweden, denmark, england-and scotland-, austria)
- 2 zones full of good bonuses ( germany, ukraine-south russia-khanate)
( yes, there are france and spain too. No, they not important)


denmark and sweden are fundamental in this map. Unchallenged are too good to stop
england is good but not as good as the previous. Can challenge france and norway.
In this zone there is scotland too. Its good. I consider It as part of the england zone.
germany can broke norway and austria or france.
the ukraine can duel with austria, is better than germany (cause germany is always duelling) prevent russia/ottoman empire/confederation big bonus; can help deny sweden big bonus if your comrade is in denmark/england
austria is fast to be taken but ukraine can stop your expansion, germany crush you. The worst of the good planes

france can be taken. sure, unchallenged england broke you easily, germany can break you.Nearly pickable.

Spain is simply too slow, the ottoman territory are bad, russia can be taken only if nobody in ukraine and nobody or a teammate in sweden (so it s bad) and italy is good only if you know that somebody is going for france/austrungaria.

So:

1- 1 or 2 guys should go in the northern bonuses
2-the other(s) should go in the other 3 good zone

Rank :

-1 kingdom of denmark
-2 Sweden
-3 Germany/england (+ scotland)
-5 Ukraine-s. russia
-6 Austria
-7 France
-8 the rest

Note : lot of people go for Spain. Spain is bad in Every Euro Map, but they will always pick portugal+spain. Italy or kingdom of morocco can slow them down a lot.

I'll point out that, while historically accurate, the bonuses can seem unbalanced. For example, Germany (not Germany per se, but the various monarchies that made up Germany before unification under the glorious Reich) are easy to take, while some bonuses seem to be rubbish. Venice sticks out, in my mind, as the kind of bonus noone can have unless they dominate the entire map.

simply put, half of the map is useless. Or is usefull for dumb teammates

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2096653


http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2092490



http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2090134

i had minimum 3 games that ended because of the spain bonus

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2087924
http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2088516

in the first game nobody picked north. If they would spain would be really worse

Second game is more interesting.

1- you were the only one out of the 6 zone, and only with 2 picks
2- you used the most efficient way to take the bonus
3- WM x didnt defend England and couldnt break spain for only 1 armies

If he used his 19 armies for defense instead attack, you ' d had to confront with the 3 northern bonuses.

In fact your team picks were quite good. And gave u time to collect the bonus. The green guy strategy to slow them down worked.

Your team picks were a little worse.
Your team played better.

The point of the topic is : plz noobs dont pick 2 in spian + 1 in portugal.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2098488

In this game, we played 10 turns 3 vs 2+AI. The purple guy was booted first turn. still we won.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2091888

i adjusted the bonuses to make the game more balanced. though parts of the map (parts of russia, poland, lithuania, parts of spain, eastern austria, sweden, anatolia) remain useless for the most part.

i'd say the map is about 50% historical in terms of how the map reflects the actual european balance of power in 1600. one of many possible examples: thanks to the swedish empire's military reforms, its war machine was the most efficient and organized in europe; yet, in this game, to take that bonus is anything but quick/efficient, while taking a more peripheral area of the swedish empire (finland) is more efficient.

ilpeggiore, my team lost that game because of the gross inefficiency of expansion by our largest player. after green was eliminated from our base areas we should have won. but he hashed the elimination of yellow and expanded so slowly. it should have been his responsibility to defend in the north, i was facing attack from two different opponents with a peak income of 13, and with bonuses that were difficult to protect. somehow i managed to take yellow out of the equation, score some victories on myhand, but it still wasnt enough. i couldnt also have piled armies in belgium to protect england.

i directed my team to the areas they should pick, but i dont think their specific territory choices were very good. in my opinion, the greatest mistake of that game was green on turn 3, allowing my teammate to complete the england bonus. we would have been dead a lot sooner otherwise.

i think there are 4 important regions, ***england***, ***northern italy/switzerland***, the ***area between benelux and pomerania***, and the strange ***'kingdom of denmark'*** bonus (which is 6 territories end to end, and also has the satellite of iceland) which is very vulnerable to the highlands of scotland. i think ***portugal is a*** very reasonable ***backup pick***, as myhand showed in the game. this is because the spanish bonuses are very narrow and can be taken quickly, especially when coupled with an expansion from italy.

***england is most important***, specifically northern england, so ireland and scotland can be used for good counterpick strategies. iceland is very important as it gives one reinforcement and provides access to norway and england.

kingdom of sweden is too difficult to take (the metabonus as a whole and finland and sweden) and too close to the kingdom of denmark to consider, even though it is as small as austria.

***france is kind of like germany in the common europe map***: it has three important zones bordering it and is very difficult to take, and even more difficult to hold. while ***austria*** is a small metabonus like england, it ***is unprotected and difficult to hold***, especially northern austria. you would need cover in italy/northern germany to take it, and that makes for a bad team strategy.

because this map is so unbalanced towards the west (a problem which could be solved by increasing certain bonus values in the east), it can feel strange making picks, because such vast areas are left untouched. however, i dont feel that a team is vulnerable to a slow, unobstructed build as seen by green in our game. essentially, it is the huge victory of myhand in his expansion and consequent battle with my teammate which lost us the game.

kingdom of morocco is one of the worst choices on the map. that should be your very last backup if you choose it at all.

WM


sure, you played well. I was only pointing out that u had 19 armies on turn 17 near to the acces to england defending the Oldenburg bonus. i' d retreat from there.
Sure, the pink guy spreaded forces in france instead than going to break spain, after using a lot of them in the north.
( we are not talking about noobs that pick transilvania without checking teammates ....)

I dont like ur team specific territory choice too (if i was you, i 'd go for brandeburg instead sachsen.

About green, i think that's better to go for Ukraine from that spot. Better bonus and
you can challenge sweden while you try to get the Commonwealth bonus.

About zones : Italy is fine as backup but's not that important, because, from there, you are far away from the big bonuses.

From benelux to pomerania is what I called germany.

Dont understimate Sweden+finland. If u can get rid of enemy fast, or if they dont put some armies in norway, it's a strong big bonus ( and i think it 's much more defendable than austria). Osterbotten and Vyborg are natural counterpick to the surrounding bonus.


kingdom of morocco is wonderfull against noob trying to take spain (Lol).


@ Guillame

without big bonuses it's not the same map. The concept changes a lot


i know, i know, my english is really terrible, sorry guys

i dont think italy should be picked exclusively but there are good bonuses around there + access to austria and luxemberg/germany.

sweden isnt bad to take but it definitely isnt a starting place.

i also think germany and england shouldnt be grouped together and i think they are each more important than you do. you focus on the metabonuses which can easily be broken by an opponent who gets a good start on the 1s and 2s.

your english is as good as most people who speak it as a first language.

finland is not bad and can fight norway/denmark, especially if somebody from ur team is in england/scotland. Maybe I overstimated it, when the playing level is higher.

italy is good as backup but after swiss there is wurtenburg (the red +3 bonus...) or france or venice (nothin i would like to conquer). Good think of germany is that allows you to expand into big bonuses (denmark / england especially). Italy dosnt allow this.

- E and G shouldnt be grouped togheter-

I think they are good the same. Not as denmark (maybe more than sweden).


I focused on metabonus / zone because a lot of mediocre player use to start with all their territory in a certain bonus (and i choose always Team B... so they are my teammates). And when they pick Portugal+spain or russia or france or transilvania or in the middle of ottoman empire... my team lose or is in trouble.
I 'd really like guys who picks all in a good zone than in a bad zone.
Sure, maybe the other team can play better or use more raffinate pickin strategy.
But, at least, we wont start with handicap or unchallenged good zone.

[ I love talkin about strategy... wonder why there aren't more strategic topics).

you shouldnt be able to expand into denmark or england. if your team didnt start there, the other team will have, and germany will be crushed by them most likely. with italy you are right, you cannot take venice, southern italy, wurtenberg. whats good about italy is that you can fight rather than expand from it.

sure, you need 2 player between england finland germany and denmark zone. Or at least only denmark (or scotland). Otherwise there are few chance to win.

Here is the link game
http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2096735
http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2097343

the second game is terrible. (not your part).

after a lot of playing on this map .....


1- finland is wayyyy good. It controls 4 bonuses, beat norway, can be taken with only 3 picks, is easy to defend and difficult to conquer when u are spreaded all along. Doesnt win games but help a lot in not losing.

2- Ukraine is key. You can take it from russia or from austria overwelming your enemy with 2 big bonuses at time

3- german is good but underrated. Doesnt win games but help a lot in not losing.

4- norway is fast but gives little vantage and isnt easy to defend from england/finland. Even germany can be problematic....

5- italy + spain isnt bad. It's one of the best way to stop austria which

6- austria can be taken in 3 turns (+5 first. Probably the fastest big "big bonus". Very valuable.

7- russia is difficult. Central part is terrible....

8- egypt, turkey, all north russia, moldavia, all in western spain are terrible-bad-quite bad-meh-not so good.


In a 3 player match i 'll choose :

1- scotland
2-finland
3-austria

I always win as Russia, so i say Russia is the best place.