All people i wrote was suggested people that have confirmed their intresse and said yes to be part of the panel yes.

Why the hell are you guys moving to a panel system after moving to this system because you didn't like the corruption of the panel system? There have been less infractions since moving to the current system lol.

Yeah, we only had widespread clan collaboration and mass account sharing instead of a couple of players playing for two clans a season.

Go back to your uboat!

The current suggestion is:

Leader: TBest
CLOT/games: Jz, B (clot), Cowboy (games)

Fairplay council: AG, Min, Reza, (Edge), (xyz)

There are mainly discussions about the size of the fairplay council and the players involved.

The idea is to out work on more shoulders and free up the actual oganization crew from the part of fairplay, which always will involve discussions.

Edited 7/3/2018 11:25:02

what about Fairplay Woman?

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15947305 If you are a clan representative, please join! This is a venue for you to decide (and if needed, vote) on the structure that CL will have forward.

Yeah, we only had widespread clan collaboration and mass account sharing instead of a couple of players playing for two clans a season.

Go back to your uboat!

Yeah, let's not forget about the Gnuffles logging into multiple accounts to get intel to win games, the whole 101st/Lynx, GG, CPU/XCD/BIA, template voting fraud, the list goes on..

Guess what, the rule that people broke this season has been broken every season to maintain competitiveness. It aint new. Y'all are the same dramatic fools as you've always been and are trying to fix the problem by 'fixing' the managers. Guess what, there's been 4-5 different Clan League management systems, and it's failed to fix this problem. Idk how it's not obvious that the problem isn't the managers/management system by now.

Were there rules to prevent these things in past?

In Cl8-10 new rules were added and still players broke it: that is what the problem is now and with strict rules, it will reduce (?).

Edited 7/4/2018 05:20:08

I have a bunch of remarks that I should throw in Discord, but have been delivered in Clan Leader chat instead (sorry guys).
I'll summarize the gist of them here.
This is my general advice on how to solve the situation and go forward with a system that works, is manageable and reduces the risk of abuse. Do with it as you please.

1) First check with Fizzer. If he can implement anything resembling Clan League, it's always better (less drama and hours involved for the community) even though the actual experience may be less good. It would also render a lot of discussion moot.

2) Rules should be clear and objective, consequences for breaking rules should be equally clear and objective. However, whatever is decided upon, don't make it too convoluted. You shouldn't need a math genius to determine how much someone cheated. (I don't have time for this and the other 10 or so math genius on this site likely neither.)
Judgement of infractions and punishments should be transparent!
Also note that WL itself is not very strict when it comes to rules for competitive play as the way too many ladder cheating, stalling and multi-accounting of the past have shown. Take this into account and don't try to make too rigid rules that nobody can follow.

3) Deal with the past after you lay out the path for the future. The rules for the future should not be dependent on who did what in the past, but be fully intended to avoid abuse. "Everyone did it" is not an excuse to not implement a rule, but it could be a reason to look into formulating the rule better and potentially more reasonable.
There are no excuses and no "get free out of jail passes" or you start off immediately with distrust from the community because justice is not impartial. Rulings should be consequent and transparent, and in line with the new and old rules. What people did for the community does never determine guilt, but can play a mild role in how heavy the final verdict is just like in real justice though. Dicks tend to be punished more severely than hard motivated workers who help the community. That is fair as well.
Try to avoid banning though. Especially towards the future, you want to focus on just subtracting points.

4) For new organizers: names don't matter in the discussion. What matters is that things are clearly defined and (again) not too convoluted:
"Positions are A, B and C. A does this, B does this, C does this. A and B cannot be of the same clan" (something like that). Who exactly A, B and C are matters less. First create a simple straightforward structure (including all the necessary checks, see later), then search for people who can do it. (I know this is a little bit outdated advice are the names are already out there).
Like in a well working company, roles can be somewhat adapted to the personnel on board, but never defined by the personnel available.

5) People in power abusing those not in power is often seen as the worst possible direction of abuse. Like any political system (yes, this is by nature political) there should be checks on whoever is in charge. Otherwise, you will always have distrust in the organizers, and especially in any ethics committee that could be considered biased towards their own clan(s). It's vital that those in power are not above the law and that there are others who can hold them accountable as well.
Or similarly, like in a company, there should be an independent organ to check the work of the directors. So I call for an independent audit committee that is generally not involved in organizing (and definitely not in ethics) and that can check if all is done well. If really necessary, they should have the power to call for a clan leaders vote to remove someone from power. Obviously, they should all be of clans (or clanless) that have no link with the clans for the organizers.
Why is this useful and important: (a) to keep those in power/organizers accountable as well, (b) to create trust in the community, (c) to give clan leaders someone independent to talk to if they feel the organizers are treating them unfairly.
Who should be in this: in chat, TBest was offered, and sadly enough I mentioned myself (someone with my experience with more time would certainly be better). Ideally, a third person should be a long standing community member that does not participate in CL.

6) Put everything in writing, but try to keep things simple! Most people do not spend much time on CL and won't read the rules anyway. The structure on the other hand should be written down as detailed as possible with restrictions on links between people taking different roles. This is vital for the integrity of CL. Even if everyone involved now is perfectly honest and unbiased, there is no reason why someone else who joins the organizing ranks for CL17 would not do it for his own's clan gain. Checks should be in place and be put in writing also for future generations! There is absolutely no use in writing a constitution like document when you don't define the checks and balances.

7) Staying up late is unhealthy, go to bed on time kids.

Edited 7/5/2018 00:52:25

In the in-game chat, they've been discussing options for the group that votes on the rules. It could be a small panel that the community approves, or it could consist of a rep from all or most clans actively participating in clan league. These first discussions probably won't deal with specific infractions. That will come later, and it may be a different (much smaller) group that deals with specific incidents.

Here is a quick list of likely to do items for that group:
1. Determine if it is allowed to start or extend a vacation for a clanmate (this is a clarification needed for CL11).
2. Determine what kind of penalty it is for playing a turn on a clan league game for someone else.
3. Determine what the penalty is for getting and giving help to a non-teammate.
4. Consider penalties for not reporting an infraction.

There has been discussion about some of these on discord. There are several considerations that people have brought up. Did the player/clan confess? Did the player lose the game anyway (meaning that it didn't affect any results)? Was is a first offense? Was it reported the season it happened? Should the penalty be upgraded if scores from a previous season have to be adjusted? How do you deal with a case where a broken rule made a difference in who promoted/relegated/won the league? Was the rule a shade of gray when the incident happened?

These are the tasks of the rule clarification group that will be formed. Other issues could be discussed as well, but these seem to be the pressing ones.

I think start or extend a vacation for a clanmate can be allowed under condition that player in question is offline for 2 days and more.

Were there rules to prevent these things in past?

In Cl8-10 new rules were added and still players broke it: that is what the problem is now and with strict rules, it will reduce (?).

The rules have been roughly the same with small changes every season. There's never been a season where the rules were written with the intent to allow account sharing or the ability of a player to play past their tournament cap.

Edited 7/6/2018 22:53:27

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=15947305

---

1) CLOT:
a) Keep CLOT for this season and for the next season too.
b) Keep CLOT for this season and go for some other means next season.
c) Make it uservoice and let Fizzer include CL.

2) Structure:
a) 5 player panel taking care of all work (max, Jz, AG, B and Reza or any other similar panel ).

b) 1/2 main organizer, 2 CLOT players, 3 or 5 ethics panel (Leader: TBest
CLOT/games: Jz, B (clot), Cowboy (games)
Fairplay council: AG, Min, Reza, (Edge), (xyz))

Fairplay Council(those who've volunteered):
Aura Guardian, Star of The East, TBest, Edge, Min34, Reza, ChrisCMU, Min34, AG, 90, Benoit, Platinum


So, to choose whether 3 or 5 ( or x number of) players are to be there and choose those players.

c) 1/2 main organizer, 2 CLOT players, instead of having ethics panel-all clan leaders vote on decisions.

3) Rules:

a) Let the ethics panel come with the rules and they can be voted by all clan leaders.

b) Let all clans come up with rules and the ethics panel can choose some of them.

---

Since its clear that CL 10 will continue I think the goal is to set up CL for 10 years now.

The new system should be transparent, prevent burn out, give the possibility to participate and have clear successorship.

=> Intransparency is poison.

=> Everything that prevents boots having an impact is good. Boots suck.

=> I agree with MW that since players cheat to keep/win points, punishments should be point reductions.

I am enjoying this. Thanks.

Thanks Kenny.
And, linb though it is not said , it is for 100 years ;)

Kenny is right (the rules have always been clear about sharing accounts/template limit).

But he is wrong about corruption in the panel system. Everything he listed is an infraction, and may have had controversy over the decisions made...but that is not corruption. I could see if a Lynx person was on the panel that decided Lynx/101st decision. Or if a WM person decided punishment to Gnuffone. Those things didn't happen. I don't know what happened prior to me taking over CL, but I stand by my panel. I believe they all acted ethically.

lol

man so much cheating,
like everything in life there always those who are prepared to do whatever to gain value.
Wl is a beautiful game and i think we should all try to remember that and enjoy it.
for me rules should be simple, clear and easily understood, if you do x the y happens. no matter who is the one doing x.

if some one cheats why not just deduct min 10 points from clan? that way clan wont want cheater in team.(or will they)

or maybe we need a cl panel to police the cl panel.
and maybe a cl panel to police the cl panel who police the cl panel.........i could do this forever lol

well i am sure you guys will work it out and guys will still cheat cus its human nature, hobos see this every day.

whatever you do enjoy the madness

The biggest problem is detecting cheating. How do we as other players KNOW someone logged into another account? How do we KNOW people collaborated on moves?

yeh obvs hard to prove,
then again if guys really need to be helped on what picks or moves to make by others then what does that say about them.

tbh its all abit sad. but to give it a positive spin lets say you play a game with guy X of clan Y, and guy X collaborates and you still win. you just beat the whole of clan Y by yourself, maybe this is how we should look at it.
go a diff root and make collaborating in the rules and those who do or dont can announce it so those that want help get it and the rest can play with a bit of pride knowing they dont need help and know when they are taking on a clan, so a 1v1 becomes a 1v20. (victory is all the sweeter when the odds are stacked against you.)
this may already be the case in cl maybe just let them be open about it cus it maybe impossible to police.

then we would have a splinter cl for guys who dont collaborate that will be infiltrated by collaborators that will force non collaborators to splinter from the splinter cl .....etc and so on and so on.

maybe we just have to accept human nature for all that it is.