I believe asking for help regarding the concrete game is forbidden while simulating the concrete game against an oblivious player is allowed.

Ouch for SNinja..

Edited 1/16/2019 08:29:28

I believe asking for help regarding the concrete game is forbidden while simulating the concrete game against an oblivious player is allowed.

Yeah I thought that too. If no advice is given it's no help in my book.

Maybe the panel should stop punishing players for things that aren't in the rules and that half the playerbase thinks is allowed? You can add it to the rules for the future.

I think it was widely known you can't get help on your games. Is that what happened, or did they just sim the games without getting other people involved? That would be different to me. If someone took their OWN game, made a scenario and played out scenarios...I don't see why that would even be against the rules.

But it was well know there was a template limit for a reason, and that reason is to test depth of a clan and not get help.

since Malakkan is apparently Rakleader and Rakleader is apparently Malakkan does this mean One being punished punish's Sninja and Sninja and One being punished again for being too good?
ps. soon we will have no one to compete in next cl

Just an outsider opinion of someone who has not played in Clan League and will not during next season.

To me it seems like the Clan League Ethics committee is doing good work. I certainly can't judge every detail, but it seems to me that they discuss every case, judge it and transparently report it to the community. I think that is great. I sometimes feel bad for them when players complain about the judgement they got, but I guess that is part of the job - and in some cases it might be even good if punished players explain why they think a judgement may be unfair.

For ambiguity in rules: It is certainly impossible to write every single border case in rules. And it should not be. I would compare it with how the law works in most countries. You define a set of rules, which cover most necessary things. Special cases that are unclear and not defined explicitly in the rules are handled by a court - in this case by the Clan League Ethics Committee. The court has to judge by the written rules, but there is always this aspect of interpretability in law, and what the reason behind the rule was, taken into consideration for the judgement. Applied to the recreation of ongoing test games I would say that people doing so put themselves unnecessarily at risk (no need to do that in the first place, and possibly a court might punish them for that), and the court decided to punish them - totally OK. If the court decided not to punish them then it would also be OK. That would be the same thing in real world courts.

As for many people having reduced slots or not being able to participate: I think that this is a temporary issue: Everyone hopefully understood now that the Clan League Ethics committee is being serious about enforcing rules and giving punishments. So in the future, people will try to behave better and less punishments should be necessary. It is perhaps a bit bad for Clan League 11 that a lot of people cannot play as they wanted, but going forward with Clan League, I would think this is the right way.

Edited 1/18/2019 14:06:31

Just make all games real time so no one has time to consult with someone else......

that is the smartest thing said on this thread after what I said before this.

Kenny has been calling for that for years. Would it result in the best test of clan and eliminate cheating? Yes.

Trouble is the logistics would be impossible. You'd never be able to get everyone on for a 3v3 probably. You MAYBE could have players arrange solo games, but what happens when common times can't be found.

Great thought, I just can't see it happening.

Sure I have been, but it's not like you have to start a new season and be like: Hey thou shalt play RT now.

Take small steps first. I wish I had to time host and organize things but I don't anymore. First try to host a small event with some RT games. Try hosting an event that blends MD games with RT games. Progressively host bigger events, see what works out.

To say that RT would never work for CL is an odd statement to me. How do you know? Have you tried it? Has anyone hosted RT events before other than WGL hosts? It's not impossible.

OK so not impossible, I just don't think you could play the format we have RT, even if you spaced it out a ton. Someone would need to be creative.

What if instead of a set team per template (and subbing, etc), you have a game limit per player? So the RT matchups would be all scheduled (like motd did for start times on MD games). Then whoever is available for the clan at that time can play. But, you can't exceed a total game limit. You may not have the same 3 people play more than 1 of the EU games, for example.

It would be cool because people would get to play templates they normally don't, and also test depth in a way we have not seen before.

The admin of it would need to be pretty detailed (to track total games per player as you go), but it would be a very interesting competition with less cheating I think.

Edited 1/21/2019 15:00:51

Yes the format would have to change a bit, but like I said don't just jump straight into the deep end, try some small events first and get used to it.

A clan line-up couldn't be used, but shouldn't something like the real-time ladder work? I'm no programmer but couldn't it be set up so people from the same clan would never play each other and once two players have encountered each other, they won't again like the real time ladder sets a time period until the next possible match?

Players probably won't like not knowing what template they're going to play, but if cheating is an issue and people are worried about collusion between associated clans, this would come pretty close to solving it.

Or, would it be possible to set certain windows each day where a certain template would be played? So for 6 hours, template A is available, the next 6 hours, template B is available, etc etc etc And then rotate that every few days or something......

Team games may be tough, but like Kenny said, start with the 1v1 and see how it goes in the next clan league. May even reduce boots.

Well, I have been advocating for a clan ladder for years. that could be played RT. There would just need to be ways in the CLOT to avoid matchups between clan members.

You could still set a 'line up'. Basically, you have a ladder for each template. The players are assigned to ladders they want to play (or join themselves) and only get games on that particular ladder. The trick is just limiting the matchups.

That would be easy for Fizzer to do, I am sure of that. If he did that, all that is needed is an aggregation system (like motd does on MDL).

The downside to that is it isn't a RR, so you aren't getting 1 matchup with the team from every clan in your division. And in this case there is no promotion system either. I suppose you could assign clans a bucket (division) and not allow matchups outside that bucket. Then an admin would need to alter the buckets at some point (every 'season').

But, this would be a totally different 'league'/ladder. It would not replicate the current CL in a RT environment. To do that would require a ton of admin.

Edited 1/22/2019 19:00:06

The way I would try is set the events date and time then give each player an event cap instead of attempting to maintain 1 team throughout a full RR tourney. The goal would be to try to maintain events happening every weekend around the same time. A couple things that would be worth discussing in that kind of format is fielding less teams for each league and whether C league down would be RT games. Personally I think RT wouldn't necessarily solve the problem of a clan basically dying in a season to boots. For example, a team that 'died' during the season would just miss the events and not field a team in an RT setting just as they wouldn't swap players out in an MD setting using CLOTs. Also would absolutely prefer if events got broadcasted by WGL, but I can't personally do that.

If you want I could organize a mini-tournament on the format I'm talking about if you want to see how it would work. Just need a couple interested clans with like 4-5 players.

Change log and updated case information updated in main post

UPDATE: Clan League 9


• Case: The Juggernauts Clan
  Incident: Several members of the clan participated in or had knowledge of rules being broken. Rikku (#1 Cata Cauda Fan) eventually went on to retire, but initially went on vacation and left his account credentials with members of his clan to continue playing his games. Rikku advised covert conduct in disguising profile flag changes. A coordinated effort was made through discord by dry-clean-only and Xenophon to handle Rikku's account; machine-washed bliss and Ikillu (Weaponised Autism) were brought in to help disguise the flag changes. Carlos created the chat and had knowledge of the incident as well as contributed to discussion regarding how to conceal the flag changes. Machine-washed bliss also shared his account details with Branislav which led to Branislav committing orders for Machine-washed-bliss in order to avoid being booted. Bugs Bunny (Severus Snape) received help from Xenophon and Rikku on picks in CL games.
  
  N.B. CL 9 rules had been updated to be notably explicit, and it is clear from discussions all those involved knew full well that they were breaking the rules. We decided to change some of the verdicts, due to some new informations in this case. The previous 4 slot reduction (ban in next season, 1 slot punishment following season) of dry-clean-only and Xenophon was reduced to a 3 slot reduction, which will be executed as a ban for CL 11. In the same time we increase the verdict for Rikku to the same 3 slot punishment, resulting in an immediate ban for CL 11, since we gained proof, that he did helped Bugs Bunny (Severus Snape) as well in his Phobia CL games. Due to this information we decided, that it's not possible to maintain the claim that dry-clean-only and Xenophon acted as the main organizers in this case, resulting in a reduced verdict for them. In the same time we also got the information, that Weatherman wasn't aware of the case until the former CL organizers contacted TJC about this case. Therefore we're going to withdraw his warning.
  
  Verdict:
  
  • 3 slot reduction (Banned from next season.)
    
    • dry-clean-only (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=4419488318)
      
    • Xenophon (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=3262000156)
      
    • Rikku (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=2969075806)
    
    
  • 3 slot reduction (2 slot reduction for next season, followed by 1 slot reduction in the following season.)
    
    • Branislav (https://www.warzone.com/profile?p=2939954756)
      
    • Bugs Bunny (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=4378684689)
      
    • Carlos (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=3443192541)
      
    • Machine-washed bliss (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=5271364445)
    
    
  • 2 slot reduction
    
    • Ikillu (https://www.warzone.com/Profile?p=8324803103)

congratulation Masters!!
you are the best clan, and you cheat anyway! it's disappointing

You're french but you're still talking. Equally disappointing

haha that's all you find to say?
I have not said anything for a very long time except "congrats Master" when u won CL10
but you probably want to talk about the faith where I protested when the panel validated the takeover of "outlaw" on 101st!
in short, I speak when it seems unfair! whether you like it or not