So would stats promote to A?

You can see the sheet for the divisions. Or click here :
https://i.gyazo.com/b16667a9150e457875faf8dee74c9cbe.png

Notes :

GG remained in A due to a dropout.
A dropout in B, meant that two extra clans from C are promoted to B. (NWO and CORP).
The top 6 seeds has been placed in Q1-3. The remaining clans will be placed randomly [current plan is to do the drawing on the live-stream].

Furthermore, if you are interested in helping out with creating tournaments and/or score-keeping a division let me know (even if you already have, since I am making a formal list now). I will make a separate post about this tomorrow sometime.

Since CL 11 is utilizing WZ tournaments we need some tournaments creators/organizers/scorekeepers for the different divisions.

Their task is to make the actual tournaments and invite the players on the lineup for that tournament.
Note: They don't need to start the tournament, since WZ now has a timer for when a tournament start. HOWEVER, they must make sure to create the tournament with extra slots, else it starts when all players have joined.
Additional, they are allowed to handle subs (including making the games where a player was subbed) and update the sheet with relevant info.
They are also encouraged to write updates in the relevant thread (through, everyone is encouraged to do this).

If you are interested in helping out CL 11 with doing either some or all of the above please reach out to me.
If multiple ppl ask to do the same task, I will choose them based on
1. Number of task they are willing to do
2. Past experience/Reliability
3. Whoever reached out to me first

[REDACTED]

Edited 1/16/2019 04:21:21

Looks like Miyagi doing1 less demotion when WM dropped season 6 is the only example I can find of less demotions (nobody really dropped prior and/or we only had a single division).


In seasons 7-8, we did extra promotions. For example we promoted 4 into B (VIW, Sninja, 101st, Stahl) when Ahol and some others dropped out.

Also clans like M Hunters and CORP got extra promotions for the same reasons.

I can only assume either the community or the admin panel thought that best after the way WM drop was handled.

Edited 1/16/2019 04:25:57

Upon further reflection, WM was already in a demotion spot (they had many players boot/retire during the season).

So as far as I can tell, this would be a new precedent (to give a demotion slot to a clan that didn't actually finish in bottom 2 of their division).

I am not trying to tell TBest how to run the league, just noting this is a change in rules, in case he wasn't aware.

I haven't looked at older CL's at all tbh. Given that the format has changed to having A/B + Q's it's not the same as previous CL's format either (there is no precedent under this format). (Also, in theory, new good clans taking a long time to reach A is solved.)

The rules nor the format has anything directly concerning it. Nor is it easy to make such a general rule. (For example, if top 4 in A drop out, do All B clans promote and the two A clans demote? etc.) The best case would perhaps to have a short playoff for the spot, but stuff like that takes time as well. I can also say, that if A had two dropouts, I would still let A have one demotion and give B an extra promotion. This is just what made sense to me. Might be wise to add how dropouts should be handled to the format, but there is perhaps some advantages with having flexibility.

I did briefly consider just having Div A be similar to Div B in CL 10. That is, have Div A be 6 instead of 7, with only one demotion. (In hindsight, one could argue that sets a precedent for 1 demotion in case of dropout I guess. Since both A and B would have had 2 promotions, 1 demotion [if none in B dropped out]).

However it's decided, I think the main thing would be to clarify how it will be handled in the rules for the future.

It makes more sense to me to reward the next clan deserving of promotion (3rd place in Division B) rather than save a clan that is getting demoted (6th place in Division A) - and that's despite the probability that 6th place in A is probably stronger than 3rd place in B - but that's just one/my opinion.

If I remember correctly, Division B went to 6 teams last season because there were, again, enough drop-outs in Division A and B that it created a scenario in which it was difficult to determine who the next deserving clan would be from the qualifiers - but I don't remember the exact details.

Yeah, in CL9 we had D1 and D2 and it would have been unclear which clan (101st or Apps) would promote. However, both promoted regular in CL 10 from C to B.

In the recent past, promotions/demotions were handled in a way increasing the number of promotions while keeping the number of demotions in case of drop-outs. But there is also logic behind doing it the other way around.

Edited 1/16/2019 09:10:13

Do Stats clan even want to be in A? If they do, they should get the spot. If they don't want the spot, then why are they playing? GG finished 6th and had their chance to prove their worth in A, It should be given to the 3rd place team by theory who can try to prove themselves.

TBH it's entirely up to TBest whether he gives the spot to GG or Stats. There's no objectively correct way of doing this.

I disagree with setting a new precident. For as long as I can remember, if a clan from a higher division dropped out, than the next highest finisher who did not drop out from the lower clan gains the slot. A the 5th and 6th place finishers still go to the lower division.

@Rento It's not about being "objectively correct", For me personally, it's more about being a fan of consistency in the league in decisions across the seasons so there can be reliability on the decision-making process to be fair. Clans drop-outs it's always been done such a way, I rather it stay like that whatever way that may be.

Certainty is better than an unknown.

I haven't looked at older CL's at all tbh. Given that the format has changed to having A/B + Q's it's not the same as previous CL's format either (there is no precedent under this format). (Also, in theory, new good clans taking a long time to reach A is solved.)



There was an example of this last season though when instead of keeping BIA in Division B it was decided that so as to not set a new precedent there would only be 6 clans in division B that season...

Reducing divisions to 6 clans without any discussion or previous announcement is stupid. With exception of CL6, there always were extra promotions when an A/B clan dropped out. The only reason B was 6-clan this season was that Beren/Deadman didn't want to judge which of D1/D2 winners should be promoted. Also, it would be very unfair to CL10 division C clans, because all of CL9 div C clans that didn't drop out promoted to B because of extra promotions.

I think Plat makes a good point. GG and VS had a chance to prove themselves in A. They did not. I would stick with precedent and give Stats the shot personally.

I won't be mad if TBest stays as is. I just think that since we've done it this way for a few years, I would be annoyed if someone reversed the trend on me (if I were in Stats) all of a sudden when it was my chance.

Platinum said

Do Stats clan even want to be in A? If they do, they should get the spot. If they don't want the spot, then why are they playing?

We actually had the very same debate. Although MW will make the final call, my thinking is that we will take the promotion if it is available.

Edited 1/17/2019 00:40:01

Fwiw, the precedent is to have 2 relegated and promote 3. That happened in CL8 when apex dropped out and ONE! promoted. B had 6 clans last season because there was no way to choose between the winner of D1 and the winner of D2. Deadman and I had communicated this on many occasions. The new leadership is welcome to do whatever they'd like, but I would suggest keeping it the same as intended at least for this season, since imo, this is really related to CL10 more than CL11.

I am not going to lobby for either promoting to A or staying in B as I want to stay as neutral as possible in any discussion forward.

So my official stance as a clan leader of Statisticians is that we will accept whatever is decided, whether that be A or B. If my clan members have a personal opinion on this, they are free to share it.

EDIT: I think everyone (both us and GG) would appreciate it if a final decision was taken soon as this may impact the roster of both clans.

Edited 1/16/2019 21:55:51

I don't know anything about precedent, but it doesn't make much logical sense to me to put GG back in A. Like others have said, they had their chance last season and relegated, and it seems rather unfair for them to arbitrarily get another chance for no good reason that I can make out.