Others game the system when they have lost. I gamed the system in games I had won on picks. There is a difference. When they game the system, they end up with outrageous ratings and rankings they didn't earn with skill. I skillfully picked and would have won those games if I didnt need a vacation. To preserve wins I felt I earned with the quality of my starting positions relative my opponents, I tried to preserve a victory I felt I had in hand. Instead, Fizzer made my account surrender. Thus, the difference: others lose, game the system, and get higher ratings/rankings; I had those games won on picks and positioning, I gamed the system to preserve my victories, and Fizzer made me lose so my rating and ranking go down.

TWM doesnt even argue how bad his starting spots are or how good his chances of winning were. He saw the history. So he doesnt need to argue this.

Instead he makes an ad hominem argument.

The idea of Fizzer violating legitimate vacations and choosing winners and losers is more important than a ridiculous ad hominem discussion.

Those who abuse the system when they have lost should also be punished. The point is, i think a line should be set. Doing this isn't an acceptable way to play, for any reason. In my worthless opinion .

This brings up the bigger question to me...

Why the hell are vacations honored on the ladders? If you need to take vacations, leave the ladder for the duration.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:54:20

I agree with Richard. Vacations and tiebreakers on the seasonal are both far from ideal. Cards not being counted can lead to manipulation, and Fizzer advised me precisely how to game the system to play the cards. Vacations should be allowed, but there should be penalties or restrictions.

Simply causing me to lose four games I had won on picks is nkt the ideal solution, especially since I followed all the rules of the game. The person who did not follow the rules was Fizzer. Games won on picks, legitimate vacation, yet booted? Why? Because Fizzer suspected something evil? Because he didnt want me to win the seasonal ladder? If I was a nobody playing nobodies, he wouldnt care. I didnt break any rules. I didnt try to steal a victory. I had those games won already, and the legitimacy of their wins on tiebreakers is far greater than at least 30% of all games determined on these tiebreaker rules. In a 50-50 situation, one guy wins by 1 army but has worse positioning. Is that fair? I had far better positioning, counters, growth possibilities. So I made sure I had more armies too.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:24:43

Both sides have some good points here, I don't think Voodoo should have gamed the system based on an educated assumption that he had won his matches already, but I also don't think Fizzer should have punished Voodoo quite so harshly without consulting Voodoo as well as outside opinions (like we're gathering now).

One thing I do want to know Voodoo, were you ever warned by Fizzer previous to the forced surrenders?

At any rate, we won't be able to make any conclusions on this until Fizzer comes here to give his side to the story.

In case Richard is refering to me:

Once I realized I wouldnt be able to finish my games and have the time and energy needed f9r my work and family, I quit the ladder and went on vacation.

All this would be much different if the ladders didmt malfunction. If you recall, no new games were created for many days. Fizzer's system broke down. If that didnt happen, I definitely would have taken more turns in my games. The Noob I played surrendered in all his games. I would have won by surrender too against him. At least one or two of my games would have finished. Ajd by the time my vacation took place, I would have only had one or two games unfinished, but they would have been advanced enough that I would have been able to win with a clearer advantage in armies and income (assuming I still had the same opponents and we make the same picks, which is a truly hypothetical situation).

Fizzer's system broke down, it cost me precious time, and then he ends up booting me in games I had won on picks. Sounds fair to me.

you're supposed to play the game till the end. the tiebreaker is meant to be able to end the damn season sooner. not to provide a way to win the ladder without actually playing the games through.

if you dont have time to play the season properly then surrender and drop out of the ladder.

Fizzer never warned me. I assume he read Krzychu's post, maybe he clicked on my games tk see what the board looked like (but I doubt he can see behind the fog for a game in progress), and he immediately forced my account to surrender.

Even if he looked at the board, I dont think he was looking to see if I had an advantage or not. He simply wanted to see if what Krzychu said was true. And if it was, he would boot me. Krzychu is correct in his assessment. What he didnt say was that I had all the games won on picks. Fizzer also knew the account was mine. He assumed I was up to no good and that my vacation is not real.

Ultimately, Fizzer made too many assumptions and acted rashly without getting enough information. I learned that I was booted after work. I worked from 7am to 11pm and right before I left the office I checked WL for something. And I saw that Voodoo surrendered in four games in one or two minutes. I checked my profile. Vacation unchanged. I was shocked that Fizzer would do such a thing.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:41:18

Good point ps. But I did have time to finish 16 and maybe 17 games. The problem is the ladder broke and I didnt get any games for almost a week. I was playing my games fast. Check and see. I could have finished 4 more games by late February. But three of them didnt even get started until late February. Fizzer said he might extend the season to deal with the problem of the ladder being broken for about a week. I checked game counts. It seemed less and less likely that the season would be extended. If 3 of my remaining 4 opponents didnt slow play, there was a slim chance to finish the games (play quickly until my vacation, take turns when I extend, try to find the guys in real-time). But without the extension, I didn't see many options for me.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:49:47

You tried to cheat, you got caught. Get over it.

Players are expected to make a reasonable effort to finish a game before the season ends. If you try to intentionally win a game by force-finish that you would have otherwise lost, the win will be taken away from you.

Your argument is that you won on picks. Maybe this is true, but in your first turn of the game all you did was deploy 5 and issue no attacks. After doing that, you gave away any advantage you may have held, and were most surely not winning the game, rendering the "I won on picks" argument irrelevant.

Second, you were stalling the games for over 25 days. That's nearly half the season. You say you got busy, however, if you can't even find time to make one turn in 25 days, you really should have just not played the season (or if it couldn't have been predicted, surrendered since you didn't have enough time to finish the season.) Your argument that WarLight should bend to cater to your schedule is invalid -- if you want to participate in the seasonal ladder, you need to be able to play the games.

Third, and more from a philosophical point of view, the strategy of deploying 5 armies in the first turn and waiting for the force-finish simply cannot be allowed in WarLight since there's no counter to it. It would completely ruin the game. Imagine how you would feel if this strategy was used on you.

You gamed the system to make sure you had a 100% chance to win those games, there's no excuse for that.

Also, it should be well known by now that Fizzer does what he wants. He is benevolent dictator, but still a dictator. Formalised rules for cases such as this would be welcome rather than Fizzer deciding by himself in each individual circumstance.

edit: whoops didn't see Fizzer's post when I submitted

Edited 3/14/2014 19:01:08

1. Cheat? I didnt break any rules.

2. Stalling games? That is what legitimate vacations do. You cant play when on vacation. Though stalling is a pejorative word. I had time. Your ladder broke. I lost time. My opponents stalled to join and make picks and play. I lost time. I lost about two weeks because your ladder stalled and my opponents stalled. Then I got busy and continued the stalling by going on vacation. My work schedule is independent of your ladder. If your ladder didnt malfunction and my opponents didnt stall, I would have had time to play out most or all of my games (see above).

3. If I lost on picks and some guy has no time to play 12 games and he decides to preserve his victory, I would be pissed. Then I would look at the history and think, "Well, I probably would have lost anyway. Who cares."

Note...
When Gui stalls, it is okay because he has real life matters to attend to.

When Gui's opponents stall, they are just stalling because they don't have real lives so can't be otherwise occupied.

Players are expected to make a reasonable effort to finish a game before the season ends. If you try to intentionally win a game by force-finish that you would have otherwise lost, the win will be taken away from you.

That you would have otherwise lost.

I won on picks. So, if I am unable to finish the game and I know it, what am I supposed to do Fizzer?

1. Not commit my orders and hope the system recognizes my great picks? I get booted on day 3.
2. Make one full attack to act like I will be able to take more turns, even though I already know I will need to be on vacation until early April? That is fake. Why act like I will be able to finish?
3. Surrender? But the games were won on picks. They should surrender if they knew what i knew.
4. Do what Lolowut suggests and expand in at least two locations? But my odds of winning are 70-100% based on what I saw behind the fog, wby would I want a 50-50 coinflip?

Based on how I understand the rules, I didnt break any rules.

Get over it. I am over the losses. It is hard to get over the fact that you violated a legitimate vacation and booted me when I didnt break any rules. I tried to play. 3 of 4 players stalled. Your ladder stalled. I asked Zibik to play in realtime. I made an attempt. But if 3 of 4 stall, I might as well treat all four games equally and just take my vacation.

Edited 3/14/2014 19:16:24

For me the message sent by Fizzer is clear - you want to game the system instead of playing game - do it elsewhere.

Btw, such coincidence - you were so busy earlier, but immediately after being 'booted' by Fizzer you can spend half a day complaining here.

You can keep saying you won on picks but that is completely irrelevant.

If Fizzer says you cheated then that means you cheated. He makes the rules.

Krzychu, good ppoint. I worked 7am to 5pm. It is a momentsry lull in my work schedule this Friday night. I ate dinner. I went home. I passed out. I wome up refreshed. I tackled this issue on the forum. I tried to go to bed. But this issue is nagging me. There are valid responses worth addressing. Tomorrow I will be tired. My work will suffer. This is why I took my vacation, to avoid having to think about games. Good detective work though. You stated the obvious: I am here. But you dont know why. Anyway, Fizzer came to provide one post as usual. I responded as usual. So there is nothing more to say.

Ill let ylu say as yku wish. I have another fu day of work ahewd of me tomorrow.

Fizzer's resp9nse is a bit depressing. His ladder can stall, but we cant have a vacation.

Last time I try to play a seasonal. Too many games in too short a period of time. You have to become a ladder addict or have no life to finish the games.

What about game http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5714290 ?

Voodoo actually attempted to play this game, at least from my standpoint. Regardless of which side you choose in this debate, shouldn't he have at least won this game?

Yes, Ace, I gamed the system just as anybody with a lead will do when they know they only have one final turn before the season ends for them. But I did not cheat. Fizzer says I cheated befause he wants to pick who w8ns the season. Imagine, some guy shows up, wins 13 games easily and wins 4 games on picks amd tiebreakers. People would be upset. So sacrifice the one guy for the good of the community. I get it. It is wise. He is protecting his gsme just as I was protecting my advantages in my games.

But it doesnt make his actions right, just as my actions arent ideal.

I would have prefered to play the games. It is hard to do that without time.

Anyways, I am done. Time to be like you, Ace. Maybe Ill pop up every now and again.

Edited 3/14/2014 19:32:05

Hahaha i can't believe this discussion is still going on :D

Voodoo you clearly on several occasions state by your self you manipulated the system in order to win games YOU think you won on picks (I guess Fizzer has this game all wrong why don't we all just pick and then the game ends and the guy who thinks he has better picks win). You cheated man, manipulated to win just because you think you won, you got caught and got punished for it.

This more than anything else should get you to consider your actions in the future not whine because you got caught.

You actions were wrong, your reasoning behind your actions is wrong, you subsequent reactions are wrong, basically everything you did here makes you look like a cheater. So just learn from your mistakes and go on.