Atheism is the devil . .. and fuzzball that's the devil too . . .

i AM NOT A troll and I dint troll other people but it seems funny but I dont -_-

I believe God made evolution. The whole Adam and Eve thing just doesnt work for me. After all it was man who wrote the Bible. Some people see evolution and immediatley think you dont believe in God but is it that farfetched to think God started evolution?

No MilitaryManiac, it's not that far-fetched. Most Christians in Europe believe that God created evolution. It's 35-40% of Americans that still think the world was created as it is ~6,000 years ago. It's a disheartening thought to say the least.

Nighthawk30 wrote:
|> @RvW, to your first comment, what makes me sure is the lack of evidence whatsoever that there ever was any links. There is no fossils that show a (to continue on my example from earlier) lizard turning into a bird. Evolutions claim that there are links, which they say would take millions of years to go from one species to another, then why are there no fossils?

Currently, there are countless billions of organisms on this planet (even if we disregard tiny stuff such as everything from viruses and bacteria up to insects), each with a lifespan of at most century or so. The fossil record goes back hundreds of millions of years. That means there've been countless billions times a million generations which equals a crapload of "individuals".
The chance any one animal will become a fossil (and will be recovered by humans) is *incredibly* small. Maybe the "links" from one species to another are relatively short-lived and all we're finding is species which remained relatively unchanged over an extended portion of time?
This is not my area of expertise, so this is just a suggestion, not fact!

|> Doesnt intelligent design imply that there is a Creator or God behind the intelligent design? Its hard for something, say a book, to be complex and intelligent, without a God designing it.

The idea of intelligent design is that it allows religious people to pretend to be scientists and (oh, how ironic) gain credibility that way. To the best of my knowledge, just about every ID-proponent uses the theory to sneak in a (tacit) "oh and by the way, that designer must obviously be God" at the end of their argument.
I'd strongly prefer if they'd just "admit" they're religious and are trying to proof existence of God, instead of beating around the bush. So in theory, no, ID does not imply there's a God, but on the other hand, yes, in practice it does.

Also, the argument is not necessarily valid. For instance, the (human) eye is an incredibly complex piece machinery which every engineer would be incredibly proud of, had he/she designed it. However, that's its current form. It is very important to remember that evolution does **NOT** say "there once was a blind ape, then all of a sudden an eye evolved and from then on all apes have eyes". Quite the opposite in fact, evolution says an organism might evolve a cell which is sensitive to light (in the very first "version" this would be very limited, maybe just enough to know whether it is day or night, we're nowhere near an actual "eye" yet!). If having such a cell proofs to be advantageous, an ever increasing portion of its offspring will also have such a cell.
Once a genome "knows" how to create a light-sensitive cell, a mutation could happen where an individual has a few of those cells, enabling it to be slightly more aware of its surroundings. Next maybe those cells could get more sensitive to particular wavelengths (and, combining a few different types, would allow vision in colour). Then those important yet fragile cells might be protected by a translucent layer to protect them. If all individuals within a species have such a protective layer, the ones where it is slightly thicker in the middle (and acted a bit like a lens) would be at an advantage, since it'd allow them to observe the world around them much more accurately. Given another million years, a muscle might evolve which gets ever more proficient at flexing that lens into shape, tuning its refraction index and letting an organism see sharp pictures at various distances, at will.

|> 'That also means that when people (ab)use science to (attempt to) show there definitely is no God, I feel compelled to object.' I was intrigued by this statement. Its rare to hear someone say something like this, when they dont believe that there is a God (or in your case, believe that there is probably not a God).

While not perfectly accurate (I do not disapprove), I'd still like to bring up this famous quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (often attributed to Voltaire, but if we can believe Wikipedia it was actually written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall).
On a side note, I do hope the "to the death" part is intended as "until I just so happen to die of unrelated causes"; becoming a martyr for a case you don't believe in seems a little over the top...

|> What the hell is the Babel fish?

While I really enjoyed The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I do think I should warn you; its author, Douglas Adams, was not exactly a religious person and some of his writing (including some parts of The Guide) could be construed as being disrespectful of religion / religious people. You'll see what I mean on the very first page.

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MilitaryManiact27 wrote:
|> I believe God made evolution. The whole Adam and Eve thing just doesnt work for me. After all it was man who wrote the Bible. Some people see evolution and immediatley think you dont believe in God but is it that farfetched to think God started evolution?

My main problem with Adam and Eve is, where did the third generation come from? There's a bunch of people on Earth, all one family: Adam, Eve and their children. So ehm, then what...?

military maniac charles darwin who was a christian believed God created evolution so the man who thought up the theory agrees with you and doesn't too far fetched

its funny how this things goes over the internet.
to be a free mason (which i am not) the first "rule" is to accept a higher power in any form you understand, the point is that is the only way people can advance in approaching a great number of subjects and knowledge. Stubborn self-mind people will always look for words or ideas to justify what they want, and what is that close for unrevealing any truth?
Is there laws in the universe? Of course they are, gravity is one of them, you jump, you fall, you die if it is high enough. But to understand gravity one person had to walk a path to unreveal reality, and bring humanity closer to understanding what's happening.
And we did it in every possible field. Science is awesome.
But there is a lot of other intelligent people that believe intuition and other forms of understanding are as valid as any rational scientific method. And they also are approaching numerous forms of perceiving reality and they know how things work for a fact.
They predict and they are precise, they are right. All difference lies in how you perceive matter, and what rules you agree to accept as measurament.
You already believe in two things that are not matter: they are emotions and thoughts, whatever they are, it ain't matter. And there is a lot of other things going on that are not matter.
Not long ago acupuncture was not an accpeted idea by the ocidental mind, but his efficiency talked for itself, and just now proven for us, because for the chinese it was a fact for a very long time.
So, my true goal is to not bother to anything that I want to believe just to make sense to me. I want if possible unreveal the rules as they actually are, know the variables that really interfere with all humam events, and universe itself.

When people open themselfs to find reality they often start to go into a very common path, and thats is understandable to a great number of people. That path leads to what we call a spiritual path of understanding. But its not spiritual, is just acceptance of a multidimensional world, where many other things interfere with reality.

Because people know that human stubborness is not ready for reality itself, groups like free masons, the Jewish or even the Vatican people have to hide most of their knowledge from the free public.
They prefer to sell you movies, music, media and everything else, hiding their understanding in their work, or either manipulating you to believe in what they know its not true.

I say to you i dont believe i have either one single belief that is in fact truth, but i know i am searching a lot and i have proof in my own life of real amazing things.

And thats my way of expressing my point of view, sorry by that

if god exist, why world war two happend? why holocaust happend, why death black happend, why not all good people will become immortal and all bad people will die, shortly: why the world isen't a utopia?
if all those things are a 'test of faith' then god is sadistic.
besides, in all the universe there millions of other planets with intelligent life forms* why god will only worry about 0.00000000000000001% of the intelligent life forms in the universe not to talk about the non-intelligent life forms, in that case it's 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% and that is only on earth
despite this, i'm agnostican, as god can only be proved to exist(which yet happend) snf not to not exist.







*human intelligent, not cat intelligent.

choombi why did you write it that way annoying.
Also your answers to your questions is in the bible.
For example why isn't the world a utopia that is because adam and eve were given a choice and they failed.
God isn't sadistic he just isn't like humans,dosen't think or act like humans,if God was like humans instead we probally all be dead so God isn't sadistic he just isn't human.
Other life forms what evidence suggest there are other life forms and even if they were i don't know ( enough about this subject or evidence.God will care for them all.
In other words do your research it is like me saying american football and baseball is rubbish when i don't know anything about the rules or about the sport make an impression,So do your research the answers are in the bible are do your research.

@Choombi:
Utopia is what Heaven is for; as far as I understand the Bible, being a decent person in this world (and dealing with all its crap) is the way to proof "worthy" of your entry ticket into utopia.

With no proof whatsoever for either the existence of alien life or the existence of God, it seems your conclusion that God doesn't care about alien life is rather premature...

According to WolframAlpha there's an estimated [1 * 10^80 atoms in the universe](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=particles+in+universe). Your impressively long string of zeros works out to 1 * 10^-253. Apart from breaking page layout and being hard to grasp (both of which would be perfectly solved by using scientific notation), it also demonstrates an impressive lack of credibility; if you had any idea what you're talking about, you'd use a real argument instead of something which looks impressive but is meaningless.

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@IronHeart:
|> For example why isn't the world a utopia that is because adam and eve were given a choice and they failed.

So God is still punishing us (the entire human population) for a "crime" which none of us would've had the vaguest possibility of preventing, because it happened thousands of years before our births (not to mention not having committed it ourselves)...?

On the one hand the idea is to go to Church every Sunday, confess your sins, say a few prayers in penance and receive absolution, yet on the other hand, we're still paying for Eve's indiscretion...? That seems to be a contradiction if you ask me.

Besides, didn't Jezus die for our sins? With Eve's "Original Sin" necessarily having taken place before Jezus' sacrifice, why is it not forgiven...?

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|> it is like me saying american football (..) is rubbish

Well duh, it is. Once upon a time there was rugby, now *that's* a real sport. But no, in order to play american football, all players put on approximately the same amount of protective gear as a hockey goalkeeper (either field hockey or ice hockey), yet there is no ball or puck which is anywhere near dangerous enough to warrant such measures...

*(Hmm, I feel like I just built a piece of Ikea furniture; my post is looking good, but I have a couple of flamebait-tags leftover... Meh, they probably aren't important. ;) )*

rvw i know nothing about american football and i don't know how come americans love it so much either.
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about the sins i don't know enough i bet some one knows

Given the recent string of news report regarding former football players killing themselves after having to deal with the consequences of the brain damage sustained while playing, saying they football is TOO safe seems stupid.

Yes, helmets don't protect players from the brain damage caused by repeated concussions: they just allow them to avoid skull fractures long enough to sustain them...

Dunga, I enjoyed some parts of your posts. I have to, however, press you on this hidden knowledge that major religions have hidden from the vast majority of us. Could you please tell us a bit more about this?

Jsut to let you know what standpoint I come from, I see organised religion as an instrument created or at the very least manipulated into a way of controlling vast numbers of people all around the world and also an accumulator of vast wealth. It has caused a lot of good but far far more bad in this world from my research into it. On the subject of spirituality in general, I am somewhat skeptical(I'd call myself an atheist).

Just for completeness' sake:
FlyingCat, that wasn't exactly the most important part of my post... However, should you wish to discuss it further, feel free to start a new thread and I'll discuss it with you there; I don't want to derail this thread, so I won't be continuing the matter here.

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Back on-topic:
Ace, just wondering, are you only talking about the current situation (and maybe the recent past), or are you speaking in general, for all of recorded history?

RvW, I think for much of history religion has been a major cultural power and has had a huge impact on the way people think. This power has been used and abused by unscrupulous people to sway the minds of many millions and to ensure that the people at the top continue to hold vast wealth and influence. I think that organised religion in general has been for some time, and still is, used to these ends.

Why can't people break up posts that take up half the page so that everyone else feels like reading them?

Because, bud, no one cares to cater to your short attention span - turns out that's not what the conversation is about..

ace, i can't answer your question with a damn long post, you up to it?

I'll read it if you write it Dunga.