Amusing since this is the very scenario that I and others warned you about.

If the changes made aren't sufficient for Troll then I don't know what more can be done.

What if you called it "Troll's Europe, adjusted" or credited him in some way?

I think that could work Ace Windu.

Maybe I could write "adapted from Trolls Europe" on the map somewhere? Though I do think this doesn't need to be done as people recognise the slovakia, hungary and Ireland bounses..
Richard you did warn me, but I thought Troll would see the benefit this adaption would bring to the community.
At the moment though, it seems like all the work I have done is going to waste ;(

Don't you think it would have made sense to check with Troll first before embarking on this endeavor?

My recommendation is that instead of asking the populace what to change via the forum, go direct to the source and ask Troll what changes he would like to see. What, if anything, is too similar to his own map and could be changed to provide uniqueness. Makes far more sense than polling for responses that may not have any impact on Troll's decision.

Don't you think it would have made sense to check with Troll first before embarking on this endeavor?
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I didn't think he still active and I *Still* don't know where to check on people's profiles ;/

Also, I have been speaking to Troll, he says he doesn't like how it lines up with his europe. I spoke about it in a post above. It's just I want to meet a middle ground...

if you add rivers he and add ore of russia and perhaps caucus he might say yes troll is right it is too similar to his

About profiles:

There's currently no way to search for profiles, you can only follow links. So you can view the profile of everyone you ever played with, the profile of anyone who's ever posted on this forum *and the profile of every map maker*. Just go to the map details page (for Europe, that's [here](http://warlight.net/Map.aspx?ID=73)) and look at the top, where it says "Created by Troll". Just click his name and you'll go to his profile.

---

About talking to Troll:

|> Also, I have been speaking to Troll, he says he doesn't like how it lines up with his europe. I spoke about it in a post above. It's just I want to meet a middle ground...

I agree with Richard: don't ask *us* what that middle ground would be, ask *him*!

Maybe he wants your map to be more distinct from his version and doesn't care at all about a thank-you note on the map. But on the other hand, for all I know, it could be the other way around entirely. Other options include him being pissed off about you not asking permission in advance and there not being anything you can do to change his mind, or the exact opposite, him just needing a few days to cool down from the nasty surprise and changing his mind in a few days without any changes to the map.

But, I can only list possibilities and make guesses. Since I don't know him at all (in fact, I'm not even sure "him" is the right word; for all I know Troll could be a woman), those guesses are pretty worthless. So, how about you get back to Troll and say something like: "Sorry for not asking your permission beforehand. Now that the map is basically finished and I'm really proud of it and a bunch of other people also like it a lot and want to play on it, I'm hoping to still find a way to publish it. [And here comes the important part...] Can you please tell me if there's something I can do to get your approval?".

(You have my permission to simply copy-paste those lines, but it wouldn't hurt your case if you'd only use it as inspiration and put the general message into your own words.)

Please keep something very important in mind: *Troll has every right to answer with an outright "no, not gonna happen"...!* Whatever you do, don't get angry or mad (well, you can of course, but only in the privacy of your own home; don't show it in the way you talk to Troll and, maybe even more importantly, don't show it in posts you make here in this thread, expecting that Troll won't see them anyway, because he just might!). I'm sorry to have to say it so bluntly, but unfortunately it's an important message (and lesson): you're the one at fault here.

In Dutch we have a saying which goes something like "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission". I'm not sure such a saying exists in English (or whatever your native language may be??) but if there is: if you ask me, that's only true in bureaucracies, the exact opposite is true when you're asking someone for a personal favour, always get approval first!

Thanks RvW, I'll bear that in mind. Also, where exactly is the *"Inactive for x days"* on people's profiles?

Update: Proportions have changed according to Google maps/satellite images, so have territories in; Portugal, NW Russia, Turkey and Poland. Slight changes in Sweden, Finland and Norway. You may also notice name changes in the surrounding areas of those listed above.
Iceland moved to more correct position.
Connection in N Africa has been taken out (Sardinia) and one more has been added in Turkey.
The [Map](http://warlight.net/SinglePlayer.aspx?PreviewMap=13020).

The inactive screen shows right under the games played in message. [Here](http://warlight.net/Profile.aspx?p=986127243) is an example for you.

Ah, thanks Richard. :)

It´s coming along nicely :)

I think you should split Italy into North and South, and perhaps with Sicily and Sardinia split off into another bonus too..

In the original Italy is pretty much neglected, this would alter that.

I haven't read through the complete thread but how about re-drawing intra-national borders entirely? I always thought of some internal divisions in Trolls Europe as a bit arbitrary (Don't get me wrong here btw, it IS a really great map and I totally understand that this is a necessity for such a map to be playable at all!).
But these internal borders aren't set in stone and could be the key in making your map distinct enough from Trolls to get his/her permission to publish. After all, those are the core of why the map is like it is - the national borders aren't exactly Trolls doing (ofc except for keeping Yugoslavia, merging Benelux etc). ;)

Gnull, the problem is, that is a tall task. A decent amount of work would be needed to revamp the internal boundaries as you are advocating.

@Francisco Vile- I thought about this but splitting the map up too much will make it...well you know what I mean. I think there should still be *some* big bonuses such as NW Russia, Poland, Sweden and Italy. I might make it more appealing though but don't know where to change in italy yet.

@Gnullbegg - I can't find anything on the internet that doesn't look similar to troll's international borders. :) About the internal borders, I think that may be the way to go, to differ the map, if the latest change wasn't enough. I am still awaiting Troll's verdict though on the new changes.

In the meantime, I will probably rename a few more places.

I know what you mean! You could merge some of the original´s smaller bonuses into large bonuses, in that case. Ireland and Britain, for example, or turn the Czech Republic and Slovakia into Czechoslovakia.

Maybe combine Austria with some of the Southern German States, or with Czechoslovakia too

|> @Gnullbegg - I can't find anything on the internet that doesn't look similar to troll's international borders. :)

The last time I checked, Macedonia wasn't part of Greece, fore example. :P
(What's called Macedonia in Troll's map is the historical/cultural region IIRC.)

|> Gnull, the problem is, that is a tall task. A decent amount of work would be needed to revamp the internal boundaries as you are advocating.

Yes, of course. But isn't that exactly the kind of work that is needed to make those two maps distinct from each other?

Gnullberg:
|> the national borders aren't exactly Trolls doing (ofc except for keeping Yugoslavia, merging Benelux etc). ;)

He didn't really keep Yugoslavia, all its (at the time) independent countries are their own territory. Sure, the Western Balkan and Eastern Balkan together are Yugoslavia (and "Balkan" is a misnomer, since the Balkan is much larger than ex-Yu), but that's all.

Merging the Benelux is not Troll's invention; in the real world there's a custom's union (is that the right word in English), that's actually where the name "Benelux" came from!

Major Risk:
|> I can't find anything on the internet that doesn't look similar to troll's international borders. :)

[You didn't search enough \*evil grin\*](https://www.google.com/search?q=map+europe+1800&tbm=isch)

Thanks Rvw, but thats in the 1800's, my map is meant to be up to date. If I changed it, it would look too like Europe AD 1900, by Ottoman, and then I'd really be in a mess!