Almost zero about history?

Name one stable country, just one, that islamic and didn't treat women or gays like shit
And wasn't so easily radicalized
And doesn't cause an oppressive law
Islam has shown itself throughout history to cause oppressive governments, always
Islam is more than a religion, it's also an ideology, much like communism
Why are islamic countries so easy to hijack and create disorder from within
Libya, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, ...
If somebody killed any western european leader or New World Leader, things wouldn't go as awry as they do in the muslim world, maybe South America, but not as badly

@goodgame
You are a hippy
When you focus on certain things you lose track of what is really important
If you want the most efficient form of energy, nuclear is the best, it's the safest, provides most energy output per space used
Farm efficiency? We produce way more than we need, like a lot, at least in the United States
Also believe or not, but weapons of mass destruction are what's keeping peace between the most powerful countries
Without them, we would have been at war by China by now

@MrMexicanAmerican
You are using very general and vague terms
Traditional values??
This statement doesn't mean anything, this changes between western europe, and eastern europe, and islamic countries, and east asian countries
Also, most progress, as in technological, were made possible in free societies
Such as in USA, France, UK
This is where you get inventions and technological inventions
Surely UK wasn't a free society by our standards, but the industrial revolution was due to these micro nations called businesses with the incentive to create more money
This is the thing that creates the most progress, MONEY
Sweden hasn't invented anything, neither has Europe in the last 100 years, can you think of anything?
Not counting fast trains, cause it's the same thing as we've had before
Even then America could make faster ones, but there's no need to, nobody is going to use trains here to travel like they do in Europe
You are attempting to say the Right wing vs Left wing will lead to either some utopia or some primitive society
But there are so many factors that tie in to that

For one, the most controversial, IQ, race, ethnicity, language
Economic freedom, social freedom, resources
Things you can't control

You may know about history, but you either don't see or choose to not admit that these things affect a countries prospective

Why do you think Israel was able to be this modern country in the middle east
Sure they gave them millions of dollars, but if they did the same to Iraq, you wouldn't get the same results
IQ, intelligence, ideologies play a larger role in determining prosperity, politics play a second role
You need to have a good mold, and that is intelligence

I'm sick and tired of this "agree with me or argue attittude"
Idgaf, what anyone else has to say about my views. Modern politics hasn't been worth the bs it's made out of for about four or five hundred years.

The only proper way to coexist a large group of people is based nature.

Have you ever thought that some people just enjoy pointless arguing?
Have you ever thought that we don't really care about the subject?

To me you two come across as megalomaniacs.

@goodgame I prefer the term "egotistical", thanks.

@whatever what caocao beans said

@senpai

1a. South and Central American socialist parties (and regimes) have been toppled and have effectively ruined their countries for generations, much like the middle east. The reason why this is not as visible as the middle east is mainly because it's not publicized as much, and radicalism in the near east creates a perfect storm of good late night news. Plus, south american involvement was mainly during the cold war, while middle east involvement is a pretty fresh wound in may americans.

1b. Read up on the islamic golden age. It's not a meme nor a myth, it was the cultural height of Islam. Ever since the mongols raped and pillaged the near east, the region has declined overall. In the 12th to 13th century, Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus, Marrakesh, among other cities, were the leading cultural centers of the extended western world (considering that Europe very rarely traded with china for most its medieval history). Discoveries in mathematics, medicine, geography, astronomy, weaponry, philosophy, law, and literature in these centers were the main reasons why the European Renaissance was made possible at all. And I'm giving full credit in that statement. In my earlier list of cities, I was excluding European cities such as Venice, Genoa, Constantinople, Salonica (Thessaloniki), and Split since I didn't want to make the list too long and I wanted to prove my point. Without the notes, translations, and mass reproduction of classical Greek and Roman literature done by the Islamic scholars, it would've stalled the European Renaissance quite a bit.

Generally, it's quite easy to laugh at mooslems loosing their shit over centuries because of mongols slaughtering a significant part of the region's population, but take into consideration the dangers of building a civilization so close to horse fuckers. Mooslems were not safe, Indians were not safe, Chinamen were not safe, even Russians were not safe from the Mongol BVLL. Europe is basically a very large peninsula with peninsulas sticking out of it, with plenty of mountains and rivers to separate each other. Europe is unique in that sense. Anyways, it all went downhill after the mongols murdered the cubepeople, with the ottomans making some things better and the persians doing a bit of things too, but it was generally a road to despair. The ottomans did try to modernize (really hard), but the changes were too quick for the country, and it collapsed with a little push from WWI. I forgot to mention that during the golden age, cultures in anatolia and persia and elsewhere mingled with arab culture to create "Islamic culture". The best part is that arab culture always brought the others down in terms of progress. In it's infancy, muslim empires had pretty (relative to everybody else) normal attitudes towards religion, women, and other things that makes "islam always bad". It's the twisting of the Koran by more orthodox scholars that made things lead to another. ANYWAYS, things declined, oh no, and the ottomans are gone. The ottomans were ruling those areas for quite a while, so what now? They fell into a bit of a ruckus and then France and Britain split them up with arbitrary lines in the sand that made things much harder than they had to be. And then what? Wahabbism (veeeeery orthodox islam) suddenly seems appealing and it spreads through the middle east (btw, Islam never had time to experience a reformation like christendom did) reaching countries like Iran or Afghanistan (which neither never collapsed from European intervention) over time.
It's hard to find good business when you have a very religious population and not very much to offer. Oil is found, people get interested, dictators installed and overthrown and installed again, more panic, more diaspora, more chaos. 9/11 happens. Oh no, why did this happen? We get even more involved, people actually care now more than ever (for some reason), and radical wahabbism spread faster, reaching into africa and indonesia.

But idunno man, maybe it's cuz they're the wrong color. That's probably why they're in a terrible spot right now.

1c. Nothing is ever simple in history.

2. You keep proving my earlier points. It's much more complicated than just capitalism and big government, there are many factors in politics. Why must it be binary? What even is the point of arguing that it's binary? Centrism is a medium between different views, not a doctrine. Every centrist I've spoken with have had different views on different subjects.

Edited 9/30/2019 22:50:36

Can't we just settle down and agree eveyrone is retorted except me?

i am retorted,yes :D

@MrKnowEverything

1a Why are islamic countries so easy to hijack and create disorder from within
Libya, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, ...
If somebody killed any western european leader or New World Leader, things wouldn't go as awry as they do in the muslim world, maybe South America, but not as badly
You are repeating what I said, but adding which is more "visible"
I said which is worse, and you can't deny Islamic disorder is worse than Latin American disorder
Slavery doesn't exist in Latin America, but it does in the Islamic World
Forced castration is a thing in Libya, where they castrate black slaves
And it was a practice done in the Muslim world, as to prevent blacks from mixing in
This is a scary low IQ society, and if you look into it, you will see the Islamic world is plagued with inbreeding

1b This is what I meant by MONEY being what truly leads to innovation
They expanded themselves because they could
This is why the Oil-rich countries in the middle east are stable
MONEY, and I just can't wait until they run out of it
This still doesn't explain why Islamic countries are so socially fragile
Who can truly claim the predecessor of those nations from the "Islamic Golden Age"
For example:
Rome -> Italy, culture evolved for the better, surely there was the fascist movement, but what led to that was the lack of money, it was financial disaster
Same thing for Germans
The Holy Roman Empire ->Austria, Several states that now make up Germany
British Empire -> UK, Canada, Australia, USA
Spanish Empire -> Spain, Mexico, Hispanic Latin America
Khan's Empire -> Mongolia, Outer Mongolia which is in China

Although not Genetically European, Mexico, and most of latin america are culturally European, language, religion, food, architecture, clothes, people often overestimate indigenous influence

Why is it that these nations didn't go backwards in time socially?

You know what seems to destroy these nations in a financial and cultural level?
COMMUNISM and ISLAM
Russia cut ties with its past self
China did the same
When going on a killing rampage they kill all those who held important cultural aspects

Why is it that after Islamic Oppression in the Iberia peninsula after 800 years, that several Spanish nations were able to be formed, and then quickly become the first global power
Do you think Spain considered themselves a successor of that Islamic Empire?
NO
They considered themselves a successor of the Roman Empire, they're identity was formed and influenced by the Roman Empire, their language and religion were because of the Roman Empire, they weren't ethnically Roman, but they are still successors
Who can claim successor of those Islamic nations during the "Golden Age"

The only islamic legacy that is alive, is the Ottoman Legacy, which lives on as Turkey
Ancient Egypt did not form Present Day Egypt
Ancient Nations in Greece formed Present day Greece
Indigenous states in Mexico did not form Mexico, it was Spain

1c I didn't say otherwise

2 Why must it be binary? What even is the point of arguing that it's binary? Centrism is a medium between different views, not a doctrine. Every centrist I've spoken with have had different views on different subjects.
When I say binary
I also told you ideologies are a combination of several polarized opinions
Centrists don't exist, because when it comes to arguments, you can only agree or disagree
It's like feeling cold, or feeling hot
Warm is still on the hot side
Lukewarm is still on the hot side
No matter how small amount of socialism you preach, it still puts you on the communist spectrum
No matter how little the tip goes inside, you're not a virgin anymore
No matter how thin the string gets, it's either still attached or not
This minimal bs is used to create a slippery slope, it is a psychological trick
And it's a great trick not going to lie
Touching with hands leads to bj
Socialism leads to Communism
Restriction on guns leads to Gun Ban

Edited 10/1/2019 00:41:54