You'd probably be the only cl organizer who tries to be fair since JSA. Not even sure if the community is ready for that.

Edited 4/11/2020 12:55:33

Clan league more like cheaters league

I think this case is clearly covered by the rules, besides being straightforward using common sense. Also, I feel that the criticism and feelings on this issue are focused on Masters (the "favoured elitists, enemies of the people"), then on the fact itself.

This seems not so interesting, and I would like to widen the perspective a bit.

Actually I think that there are lots of arguments for allowing any (new) clan to jump directly into the division which reflects the level of its roster:
1) This is not a competition for money or involving other such interests, it's just for fun, and I do not see how unbalanced divisions may be fun.
2) Strong clans from the bottom seems totally non sense. Not only for good players, but as it deprives decent teams to promote.
3) It seems also desirable that div. A expresses the best available level of competition, as it makes CL more interesting.

How to do it may be a topic for the improvement thread, still it seems possible to use some objective parameters to rank a clan, e.g. the actual MDL Elo of its roster. Maybe this would in turn create more activity on the MDL, which also seems nice.

Mayo, you discovered nothing. You just collect screenshots after something comes out. Always late to the party, so to speak. Every single time you come with some big revelation about something that happened, it's already being discussed within the organisatory parties of CL. You publishing everything before anything useful can be discussed by the organization is merely hindering the process, not some big whistleblowing thing. The whistler guy you mention so often? You had nothing to do with it, nor did you provide any information. The TJC cheating? Not your discovery. In all those cases it's just been you publicizing stuff that's already being handled, trying to start a riot. That is exactly the reason nobody wanted to work with you when you applied for the Clan League Panel. You merely hinder the process, instead of handling it.

So who's gonna write a book about it? I wait

I feel this is just the beginning. We need a new team of analysts to reach a final conclusion.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0iUhFzgw-rY

@zev His spying also included lynx/101st. He had even leaked a screenshot of me receiving help in a ladder game, TWO years after the incident happened, and he waited to report it until he was losing an argument.

Any respectable person would at least bring this up when they get it, or better yet talk to the actual people involved.

Not to mention he left out plenty of screenshots where krunx, Rento, me, etc. said to the players, you should not receive help on ongoing ladder or competitive games.

Of course what I did was wrong, but I was new and didn't know better.

Can we lock this thread already?

No Dont i wanna see What Happened Between All Of Them Makes it easier to understand whats going on

The 101st/Lynx stalling/cheating thing is too old at this point, I'm their biggest critic on that front with my forum history but I think they've been warmer with the community and have been good role models as a clan for this type of thing in recent times.

Let's get rid of that stigma first of all.

You should view 101st/Lynx from a higher perspective now than what the past suggests.

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Outlaws/101st was straight forward, anyone objecting to that decision wouldn't have a good sense of judgment in terms of thinking of overall benefit to the league and context to the case. It might have been fair or not (that's up for interpretation), but it was the correct decision given the circumstances.

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I like Masters, I think as a whole they've done more for the game than the French that is shouting them down. Deadman should be remembered for his contributions to the game and the league, not for cheating. I forget the case details but it wasn't like he rigged the league, it was just a breaking of rules and he was punished accordingly and that should be that.

Realistically, they had no impact on the final standings of the league so we can stop pretending it did. He made a mistake, he did something he shouldn't have done, that's as far as it goes. It wasn't Lance Armstrong's style of cheating as it seems like it's being painted.

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Players should be grateful for people that make contributions, the idea of having players shove 2-year-old screenshots saying "you did this, you are a bad cheater" to a Cowboy, who has spent more time leading that CL then some fathers have spent with their sons, is just toxic culture.

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I'd finally like to bring an interesting parallel, which I think creates the most divide on this issue. In racism stereotyping, you see a color and you make a series of assumptions.

I feel people see Master's tag, see them as cheaters and automatically associate cheating.

Don't view a clan for its tag, view them for their current values and their current members. To judge off a tag, is following a weird parallel with racism.

Am I trying to call this racism? For sake of controversy, yes.

---

The easiest solution is for Masters to simply play under the Apprentice tag, but that won't happen because of spite and now we're in a toxic Masters vs French battle.

The correct solution is for Masters to take Apps spot under the rule. Let the French change the rule if they're so upset about it. I think they could've argued about this rule under the Clan League 12 improvements thread.

All parties can be happy.

Welcome to my ted talk x
Yaxvi

Edited 4/11/2020 19:32:43

https://www.strawpoll.me/19751847

Vote on it bud

Just for Mayo, Zev, and other Frenchies:

The panel reserves the right to ban any player for a season for excessive spamming on the CL forum threads. Harassing the panel will result in a ban as well(You will be warned once). Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but please express it in a respectful manner.

"The panel reserves the right to ban any player for a season for excessive spamming on the CL forum threads. Harassing the panel will result in a ban as well(You will be warned once). Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but please express it in a respectful manner."


excessive spamming What is Considered excessive spamming creating 5,10,20 cl forum thread Replies?
it doesnt say what is considered excessive so everyone would count differently farah

Thank God we have the Ethics Panel and the Audit Panel to judge then. Anyways, me citing this bit was about the last two sentences. Try not to harass the panel and try to express it in a respectful manner.

i will try my best to do that

@ Yaxvi
it was not worth writing all these lines if you did not even understand the problem!
It s not a problem of racism. i really like Mod, cowboy and others Masters! it's a fairness issue
of course I am aware of all that Masters has brought to the game and I thank them for that! but the competition has nothing to do!
we cannot privilege them compared to the other clans under pretext that we must be grateful to them!
to impose it would be an abuse of power!

@Farah Did i write something in a non respectful manner ?

Edited 4/12/2020 00:41:31

French Community could've merged into another clan or has another clan merge into them just the same.

Obviously being brother clans has some advantages, but this is something that all clans have the opportunity to take advantage of.

So the argument of fairness really isn't a good one.

It is not me harassing the panel or spamming posts, but the panel harassing me;

Melda made a point like there were few people willing to work and because cowboy asked them 1 on 1 few players from his clan were in the panel; I wrote that I applied and because cheaters didn't want me on panel I wasn't there.

Because there was no community voting, I called it as bias and Cowboy confirmed it by writing it is the panel members who didn't want me on the panel, not the clan representatives. Even if there was a voting and I was voted out,
I still can question why a cheater is on panel or why a player got onto panel to cheat-but then Cowboy started writing like I didn't get information in the way I got it and did shady things, without backing it. He couldn't explain
the bias, but started attacking me personally and so I had to reply for the complaints; even after all that he never wrote why a cheater is on panel or how can a player get into panel to cheat-both of which sets bad precedents.
Seeing the cheater circle run in to bark I understand that the bias can't be removed, but as organizer it is your responsibility to answer the question and not harass and slander the questioner.

Then Farah jumped in writing I never did anything to help the process of it and didn't discover tjc cheating; I only hinder it and not handling it. Factually this is all wrong because I conducted one div in second half of CLX and one
qualifier in Cl XI, found out TJC cheating and even more I reported it to old panel, was angry at their decision first-but understood the points they made and was not hindering the progress in anyway as I left it. Even when I posted
it first on CLX server it didn't blow up and only after 2-3 weeks when it was reposted it blew up. Whistler thing has nothing to do with me and I never claimed that I did it or helped it; I simply cited that to show how he/she escaped the
harassment. So as a whole you're lying and trying to harass me instead of answering the questions I asked to the panel or about the panel.

Sure the cheater circle can downvote my posts, but why not try answering the questions? Do I need to write to Ethics panel about this or is it the audit panel?

Edited 4/12/2020 07:13:27

Edit: We're not killing the smurfs.

Edited 4/12/2020 09:32:48

@Maayan: Since you are also a member of M'Hunters, how about you could publicly verify that we are 100% legit. No dirty tricks found while browsing through our CL thread?

About this thread I'm no lawyer but the way law works is that there is a judge who has to apply the appropriate law and as for the details he uses older cases in order to ensure a continuity of the law. Whether he personally likes the accused doesn't count. Also if the accused has found a legitimate loophole in the existing law then he gets away with it.

So applied to this case:
- Do some believe the panels are corrupt --> Apparently yes.
- Do some believe Masters get an unfair advantage moving directly back to A --> Yes
- Do I believe training clans are humiliating and shouldn't be a thing --> Yes
- Do some believe that it's bullshit that Masters takes the Apprentice CL spot especially since with all the big boys in Masters the Apprentice guys who are fighting this season probably won't get a spot in the next season --> Yes

However:
Is there a clear rule which allows Masters to take the Apprentice CL spot --> Yes

Edited 4/12/2020 11:33:04

sorry may sound dumb but who are Masters? and what qualifies you to be a Master...… ?