I don't see how winning 1 clan league suddenly puts you as best clan when skill levels are dynamic. Put into consideration the fact that in said clan league team games are far more valuable than 1v1s and Apex had 2 players who had more pressing matters to attend to and you'll find even in that flawed scoring system Apex played on par with WG during the event. The poll is clearly troll, but I'm not gonna let you get away with saying something even more troll. I'd say it's pretty hard to determine who's the best clan between Apex WG WM and 20 as all 4 are playing at top level. Very minor things separate all 4 clans, so you'd have to truly be arrogant or nitpicky to arbitrarily decide which of the 4 is better.

Haha Lolowut, that's funny. The only way Apex, WM, and WG are on par with 20 is if they combined to form a clan to fight 20. Then it'd be close to an even battle. This "flawed" scoring system was voted on by clan leaders as the best way to score the clan league. If the "flawed" version is what everyone wanted, is it really flawed? Or is it just flawed in the mind of the losers? It amazes me you have audacity to tell Chris that he can't put his clan above yours even though his clan finished much higher than yours in a competition that is designed to find the best clan, yet you put your clan on the same level as 20. Very minor things is bs. Timinator, Fridge, Bezlbu, Myhandisonfire, Gnuffone, Szewenigen, Qi are 7 players in [20]. I'd take those 7 over anyone in apex in all-around play without thinking twice. 20 is by far the best clan.

As for apex, WM, and WG, it is hard to say. But putting these 3 clans on the same level as 20 is a joke.

Edited 5/23/2014 20:51:51

I don't understand the complaints about the scoring system. It was voted on, and everyone knew it going into the league (and set up lineups accordingly). I don't buy your priorities argument either. First, we had Andersault go 1-5 because he basically retired after it started. Second, I can only go by who played, not speculate who has other priorities, etc.

I do agree the differences are minor, we just happened to prove that season we were better. You guys did not win because grona/widz went 1-5 (for whatever reason), not because the point system was flawed.

You could make a case that you should have been 2nd though, since Gnuff cheated. But anyway, just prove it and win next season. All this talk of who is the best is pointless IMO. I think you have a tier 1 of 20, WG, WM, Apex and GG/Lynx could be in the next tier (hard for me to say with all the changes they have made recently if they would be in top tier). Why make excuses for not getting the upper hand that time? Just realize we are all in the same conversation. I'm sure 20 will win the league in a couple seasons when they are in A, but who knows? Half them could be retired by then anyway (so could half of WG). I say just let the results of the league speak for themselves. Probably like this:

Tier 1A
20

Tier 1B
WG
WM
Apex

Tier 2
GG
Lynx

Masters, Ahol could be in Tier 2 or maybe Tier 2B as well.

Edited 5/23/2014 20:50:58

Timinator, Fridge, Gnuffone, Bezlbu, Myhandisonfire, Gnuffone, Szewenigen, Qi are 8 players in [20].

If you say 4 gnuffones instead of 2, you could say they are 10 players in [20].

The complaint is obvious. You score it so that certain games/templates are worth more than others. We never agreed to the scoring system but get overruled, whatever. A flawed design is a flawed design nonetheless.

If you wanted a truly fair system, you would have the same amount of 1v1 tournaments as 2v2 tournaments as 3v3 tournaments and score each game as 1 point if you win. So that 1v1 = 2v2 = 3v3. Instead we decide to score it so that they are fewer games of 3v3/2v2 than 1v1 but the 3v3/2v2 are worth more. It's always been a gimmick because no matter how you slice it people are always going to be penalized more for losing a 3v3 game than they would be for losing a 1v1 game. I brought this up for Clan League 5 and what was decided is that we should double the amount of tournaments and change templates across the board. I don't understand how this is supposed to be more fair than the last clan league but it's the same damn thing proportionally.

Also damn right I can put 20 at the same level as WG WM and Apex. Of the 7 people you mentioned, 1 would always play for WM, and 2 are active enough to play multiday consistently. The rest are in some limbo state of retirement and constantly complain about the game. If I had to pick dedicated players who are going to be willing to play out an event without suddenly going AWOL or getting lazy due to the fact they're tired of the game, I wouldn't be going through 20.

Like I said, you cannot arbitrarily decide the best clan from the current top 4. Maybe that will change, but I'm not seeing it. Just like most competitive games, once you get up to a certain skill level there's always an argument of 'who's the absolute best' but it's such a dynamic field that it's pointless to pursue the argument.

Damn these arguments are repetitive, I'm sure I can remember the last kerfuffle about this.

Lolowut, you can't have it both ways. Apex has not won a clan league yet, because of their activity. This trend will likely continue. You can say, no it won't, but it has so far, and is like to. Sure, 20's not very active. They are still far superior in skill to apex, WM, and WG and in depth. I was looking at skill. If you look at activity, WG is suddenly looking like the best. What the hell are you judging that puts all 4 on equal grounds? A combination puts WG and 20 on top, with Wm and Apex a step down. Pure skill: 20 easily. Pure activity: WG. So which one are you going with?

Yeezy don't believe these wannabees

You seem to simply have different definition of the best. ChrisCMU is right that WG is the best cause it scored most points in the last league, JSA is right that 20 is the best because he think people there are best people in terms of skill, I'm right that apex is the best because I'm here.

I think the only thing left to say is that now WM is obviously slowly dyeing.

@Lolowut: I love your work! Please continue :*

Apex has not won a clan league yet, because of their activity.

LIES!!! Again, you know nothing JSA!

Edited 5/23/2014 22:48:18

Okay, Apex tied for one win. Out of 4 clan leagues, apex has been considered the favorites or close to the favorites in each one.

This debate is pointless, as 101st obviously will win this season.

LoL! Lynx on top of Masters and AHoL, dude Boston drunk could take anyone on Lynx

Edit: LoLowut nooooo This clan league i make scoring 3,4,5 instead of 2,3,4! Not much better but a little bit

Edit#2: @@@PUSLEY: LOLOL NICE THREAD BRO

Edited 5/23/2014 23:17:14

You crack me up

:)

just chill...

apex sucks.

sorry, just thinking aloud. Carry on.

Edited 5/24/2014 00:54:50

Reading my favorite players bicker for the first time....

Put into consideration the fact that in said clan league team games are far more valuable than 1v1s and Apex had 2 players who had more pressing matters to attend to and you'll find even in that flawed scoring system Apex played on par with WG during the event.

Dear Lolowut I am not saying WG is better than Apex or WM but what you said above is not true

scores of last clan league

.WG 28-30-20 78 14-10-5 29 29-13 69% 42-40-25 107
.WM 32-12-24 68 16-4-6 26 26-16 62% 48-16-30 94
Apex 32-18-12 62 16-6-3 25 25-17 60% 48-24-15 87
on the left is the current point system 1v1 worth 2 points 2v2 3 points and 3v3 is worth 4 points
so yes team games are worth more However there are more 1v1 games so the total value of 1v1 games is 48 2v2 is 36 and 3v3 24
now in the middle you see the scores if each game is worth 1 point still you see WG is #1 WM is #2 and Apex is #3 that is because our win% is higher 69% to your 60% so to say "Apex played on par with WG" is false
on the right you can see the scores according to the upcoming point system still WG remains #1
now further more if you are not convinced here is one with 1v1 games are worth double than team games
WG 28-10-5 43
WM 32-4-6 42
Apex 32-6-3 41
still WG is #1 and why is that because we happen to win more games not because the system made it so we won
our win % this last season was better simple as that
good luck to all in the next clan league :-)