When will you resign?

Whenever you take over

Cowboy is sorely missed...nah

Question is, can Farah be better? *suspenseful music*

I had this conversation with Farah and did not feel satisfied with the response I received.

Yes we submitted our roster after 11:59:59 CET. It was submitted August 29th at 21:29 EST. I have had a tumultuous start to college experience, with several power outages, Zoom crashes, etc. I am a busy person lately. Here is the information about deadlines that was given by Farah:

August 7th:
Submit your lineup by mailing me. All lineups must be sent in before August 30th. Keep in mind that a player can only occupy a maximum of three slots and they can't be on one template multiple times.

August 27th: (2 days before the deadline):
Deadline for Signups, Rosters and Lineups:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=august+29+23%3A59%3A59+CET

I challenge anyone reading this to go find that post. I had no idea that the deadline was moved ahead 6 hours for me. Why would I look on the third page of this forum thread for crucial information about the deadline? Why wasn't that information edited into the original post?

Here is the conversation I had with Farah about the topic:

https://imgur.com/a/OfXts2B

One thing I don't appreciate is the sassiness. Another thing I don't appreciate is the lie. Checkmqte mailed Farah, Thedde, and myself August 29th at 19:27 EST. Farah claims to have sent me "mails urging to send in your stuff", however it was just Checkmqte mailing me one time, apparently past the deadline.

In conclusion, I don't really appreciate the attitude that I have been given and the way that we are talked about by Farah on the forum. I don't think it's a very good idea to make the roster and lineup deadline 2 days before the first game begins. I love Clan League and I really appreciate Checkmqte and Farah for running it, but I do not think any point deduction is fair due to the poor communication that occurred on the forum.

Also: Had Hydra received a 3 point penalty last season, we would be in Division D now. It's a huge penalty.

Edited 9/4/2020 00:17:38

I understand you're not happy about the point penalty but Hydra is the party at fault here.
You had a deadline and you didn't respect it.

You say it is because of poor communication but all the relevant instructions were written on this thread.
So it's not on Farah or the CL Panel if you missed those instructions, they did their job.

You might think the penalty is harsh but the actual rule on the spreadsheet is:

If we do not receive a full roster on time, the clan is removed from the league and the next clan is bumped up.

So Farah is right, he actually did you a favor here.

You say it is because of poor communication but all the relevant instructions were written on this thread.

He bumped the deadline forward 6 hours (from what I thought it was based off of OP) 2 days before the deadline in the depths of this thread. Come on now. That's horrible communication. Things should be crystal clear (like refreshing or elaborating on your original post) if you're going to make the deadline that close to the start of games.

Edited 9/4/2020 02:06:08

And yet, all the other div A/B/C clans read those instructions and submitted their roster and lineup in time.

Chiming in to hopefully de-escalate this a bit: Both parties (Hydra and CL) seem reasonable here but it seems like the actual issue at dispute was not well communicated so far.

From Ben's perspective, the first page said lineups were due before August 30th (timezone unclear). Ben clearly read the instructions on the first page in detail and submitted the lineups before August 30th in Ben's timezone (EST), which is also probably the most common time zone in Warzone. On top of Hydra, multiple other clans were caught by surprise by the deadline- Celtica and USSR and also my own clan and perhaps others that didn't make the cut.

Meanwhile, Farah answered questions and provided regular updates on which clans still needed to submit their rosters and lineups, put in the effort to notify them, and as a courtesy even threw in that Wolfram Alpha countdown link. Any clan that was paying attention to this thread shouldn't have had too much trouble picking up on the time zone; on top of that, Farah's super-accessible and easy-to-reach so clan points of contact could've just asked Farah what the time zone is and gotten a quick response (likely even when Farah was busy with IRL stuff).

Neither party seems like the bad guy here. It seems like there was some miscommunication about exactly what the issue was with Hydra getting the penalty (looking at the prior chat logs shared by Ben). Hydra's complaint seems to be that the time zone clarification was too easy to miss unless a clan really and regularly paid attention to this thread, and that's maybe a lot to ask because people have a lot going on right now.

I think it's up to Farah now to decide whether:

1) There's an expectation for clans to keep on top of updates and official announcements (e.g., on places like this thread) or to clarify points of confusion (like the time zone) instead of making assumptions. Or, as Ben says, whether instead major things- like the time zone for a deadline- should be published well ahead of time and highly visible on the top post, because clan points of contact might be busy with life and not able to notice things like the WolframAlpha countdown in time.

2) The penalty makes sense given the confusion apparently surrounding the deadline or whether it would make sense to instead forgive it as a learn-and-make-things-clear-next-time type of deal.

Ben has clearly communicated his situation above and can make the best case for his desired outcomes in the decisions above. In my experience, Farah is a really good listener when the topic of dispute is clear (especially if you're angry about something) and I believe this can be resolved via another conversation in chat between Ben (and perhaps representatives of USSR/Celtica if they also agree with Ben) and Farah (or some other CL representative).

Beyond this, I don't think pointing fingers on this thread (or shit-talking Farah/CL or Ben/Hydra here and elsewhere) is going to be productive at resolving the dispute.

Edited 9/4/2020 03:33:33

i’m sorry Ben if u don’t have too much time but It was easy for me find infos about this CL. Farah always answered me and there are some threads. We have a Discord channel where u can see all notifications too. So maybe simply u didn’t have time to check.

Edited 9/4/2020 06:50:11

One thing I don't appreciate is the sassiness.

=/

Another thing I don't appreciate is the lie. Checkmqte mailed Farah, Thedde, and myself August 29th at 19:27 EST. Farah claims to have sent me "mails urging to send in your stuff", however it was just Checkmqte mailing me one time, apparently past the deadline.

Few things here.
1) Regarding the "mails urging to send it your stuff", yup, shouldn't have used a plural form. Checkmqte sent you a mail with me in the mail thread. I think that counts as a mail urging you to send in your stuff. Calling me a liar because of this seems like a stretch.
2) Regarding lies, after we sent you that mail, you claimed to have sent in your roster and lineup already via discord by PM'ing me. Given that this conversation is the first private conversation we had on discord, you tell me who's lying.

I don't really appreciate the attitude that I have been given and the way that we are talked about by Farah on the forum.

What have I said about you on the Forums? I seriously can't think of anything I ever said on the forums that would be offensive to Hydra.

Also: Had Hydra received a 3 point penalty last season, we would be in Division D now. It's a huge penalty.

Had I followed the rules, Hydra wouldn't have played in any division.


In conclusion,
You've had several weeks to submit a roster and lineup. You are the primary contact of Hydra and chose not to keep up with the Clan League Official Thread. Then, when we mail you, you claim to have sent in all your stuff already, which isn't true. I gave you the opportunity to send it in anyways, as the rules state that you couldn't play. We decided on a three-point penalty instead of the 5 that was the standard last season.
It's not like we tell you to submit your lineup on the 30th of August. We tell you to submit it before that. You simply missed the deadline, and there are consequences for that.
You could've always just asked me about it, too. If you think something isn't communicated properly, send me a mail, a PM, as it on the forums or send a pigeon to my house for all I care. But to go on the forums, sharing PM's, telling people I'm lying? Come on.

I agree with Ben that the original post should have a timezone to avoid confusion. Farah should have updated the 1st post when new information was added. Initially I was confused about the (lack of) timezone as well, but that was cleared up within 1 minute after messaging Farah.

However, this is not a valid reason to miss the deadline. With you being a contact for your clan, you should keep an eye on updates in this forum and the forum for your own Div. The responsibility is with a clan's contact to make sure that they understand what the CL panel is communicating, and clear up any confusion they might have.

In my opinion, the CL panel has been very kind to let in multiple clans after the deadline, with a 3 point penalty (which is like 3% of the points).

To avoid such issues in the future, I recommend the CL panel keeps the first post updated, and that important updates are posted on the CL discord server as well.

PM me in the case that Hydra is about to miss another deadline, please.
so that I can PM them.

I also want a large Latte Machiato at 7:30 in the morning. I am in CET.

Happy Clan League everyone!

Thx for all the work, clan league panelitos and panelitas.

@ben:
Acknowledge clan league panel isn't your babysitter. Don't be too hard on yourself. Nobody will be mad at you.
It's just a game.

If you have class you might even apologise.

Cheers lin

I think some points are still unclear :

-1) Regarding the "mails urging to send it your stuff", yup, shouldn't have used a plural form. Checkmqte sent you a mail with me in the mail thread. I think that counts as a mail urging you to send in your stuff. Calling me a liar because of this seems like a stretch.

that email was before the deadline ?

- Yes we submitted our roster after 11:59:59 CET. It was submitted August 29th at 21:29 EST.

is it true ?

finally :

- What s the role of Clan contacts ? the contacts of any clan should have been contacted when something has been decided/modified/postponed etc... or simply they are the only that can speak with CL panel ?

Since the date was moved ahead and the Hydra contact haven't been notified, they are not to blame, depending of what are and which privileges the clan contacts have .

Since the date was moved ahead

This is a bit misleading.

The deadline was not moved ahead; it was always "before August 30th." The time zone (CET) was just made clear. It was only "ahead" of when Benjamin had assumed the deadline was ("before August 30th" in EST).

There was no change, only a clarification.

Just to make sure perspective is being kept:

If Hydra gets penalized, Hydra likely loses nothing. 3 points can be significant in some cases, but 3 points are smaller than most sources of noise in CL results (e.g., 1 player getting booted in 1 game is already going to probably cost you at least 3 points).

If Clan League backs off on the penalty, Clan League loses nothing. The worst precedent you risk is having to be extra-clear about the time zone for future deadlines. It's not like this is going to open the floodgates to ignored deadlines next season, unless you somehow manage to run into the same level of confusion again. Plus 3 points are nothing, right?

I hope people aren't getting too heated over something so petty and inconsequential. The effort you're putting into fighting this, drawing up battle lines, picking sides, and launching low-blows to stick up for your friends is probably a bigger waste than either a 3 point penalty or a confused few hours' worth of delay in lineup submissions.

Edited 9/4/2020 10:29:43

that email was before the deadline ?

Yes

- Yes we submitted our roster after 11:59:59 CET. It was submitted August 29th at 21:29 EST.

is it true ?

Yes

What s the role of Clan contacts ? the contacts of any clan should have been contacted when something has been decided/modified/postponed etc... or simply they are the only that can speak with CL panel ?

The role of the contacts is to keep up with everything Clan League related and informing their clan members.
The other role is them being the ones who can make substitutions, submit rosters and lineups, change rosters and lineups and change rosters during the midseason registration window.

Since the date was moved ahead and the Hydra contact haven't been notified, they are not to blame, depending of what are and which privileges the clan contacts have .

The date was not moved ahead, just clarified. The point reduction stays.

Benjamin628, the deadline was never pushed forward. Indeed the original post was unclear about the timezone, but the countdown link posted 2 days before the deadline made it clear. You can't blame the organizer for you not following the official league's thread, and neither can you for you waiting until the very last minute to send the line-up.

Whenever you take over

I'd like to take over.

I never said it’s not my fault, I’m just saying the communication was poor. When I checked the first post of this thread in the morning of the 29th it said due before August 30th. I was like alright I’ll do it tonight.

I maintain that there was poor communication, and that’s why I posted my complaints to the public forum.

However, this is not a valid reason to miss the deadline.

Yeah, I turned it in at 3:30 AM instead of 12:00 AM. Imo not a big difference but I don’t make the deadlines. The issue here was the ambiguity. Should be crystal clear and on the first page.

Edited 9/4/2020 12:19:41