Targeting players based on most AP needs to be removed..with more players (20+) in a game and maps rich on attacks, it makes it hardly playable because in the beginning you are attacked by most people and locked with just 1 territory (base army camp) and can't do a shit (despite not being number 1 in army income nor number of territories) because your base army camp is just surrounded with huge "wasteland" and getting anything will just lead to another immediate attack so you end up being locked by bigger and bigger wastelands..

Based on my experience, I think it would add to WZIB strategic value, if targeting was based only on number of territories and other similar factors..being attacked as the one with most territories will put you down in ranks and someone else may be attacked..but being attacked because of having most AP won't put target on someone else and that is just not good in my opinion..

I think that is to help even the playing field for newer players.

I dont get the reasoning behind the attack on AP either, same for the attack clanmates.

Territories, Army income en Random (which is not random at all) make sense, but those are the only 3 useful options.
As a replacement, maybe Fizzer could implement most Money income as a targeting setting as well.

I think this is only a temporary thing tbh, and the result will be high AP & Supercamp players will have a huge advantage. And as the more players of this caliber join, newer players won't have any chance at all.

Once enough high AP players start playing, the low AP players won't be able to win.

Once enough people who buy Supercamps start playing, those without won't be able to win.

Once people with both high AP & Supercamps start playing, anyone who hasn't played a lot & also paid for a Supercamp won't be able to win.

But on principle ... I agree. The "Targeting" should be limited to actual in-game observable factors only. If you can't see someone's clan/AP level/etc in the WZIB, then it shouldn't be targetable.

@No.One - Btw, I got similarly pommeled in my last WZIB game. I'm guessing maybe it was also by AP value but not sure. I kept getting massive neutrals created in my starting territory area. On the flip side, I have no idea how pommeled the other players were getting, maybe they were getting it too, hard to say.

Edited 12/1/2020 16:58:52

Nah, its pretty balanced now, so aiming for the AP serves very little purpose.

I agree that it's balanced _now_. But once enough high AP/supercamp players join, things will change (so new players won't be able to win). This will take time to happen, some folks need to finish a lot more maps and gain more AP to become a threat.

I understand very well the balance thing..but AP targeting is not the right way to go..it means killing 1 person and leaving others high AP players who may have even more suitable upgrades for WZIB intact by this kind of targeting..that won't really help newer players..

Funny that you made that thread and use exactly the same function yourself :D such a hypocrite

Edit: since you are targeting the second highest AP player (me), i'll just attack you to keep you even smaller in order to get less attacks in myself. Have fun and enjoy the game

Edited 12/2/2020 13:32:41

Be happy I am in a game with you so you are not a target for others..and yes, I dislike you a lot..but that's just another reason to change the whole concept of targeting so one can really influence the output..

Edit: it wouldn't really be a problem, if it was just you targeting me..your approach is logical..the problem is that in almost every game there are several players who are targeting highest AP player throughout the whole game which makes it unplayable and one can't influence it..I am having a break from WZIB until this is fixed (if there's some until)..

Edited 12/2/2020 13:42:05

And there i thought you blacklisted me so i can't join your coingames... Where does your hate come from? Did i kill your pet?

I have unlocked Auto-Upgrade Army Camp, and now I am getting slaughtered in WZIB.

Many players target highest income and never switch it even if the person with the highest income has the least territories, and there is someone who is about to win.

Basically, I am being punished for having AUAC unlocked when there are inexperienced players (ie always). I should be able to toggle it off when necessary. (Unless it’s already possible in which case I am dumb.)

@Z

Most of the Auto-Upgrade AP Adv's will work against you in WZIB. The higher the % you upgrade each to, the less control you have over what's happening in the game.

This might be fine if the game didn't force you to target players with most territories (which you're likely to be if you have high Auto-Conquer %) or highest most armies (which you're likely to be if you have high Auto-Army Camp Upgrade %) and probably similar results for other Auto-Upgrades.

Basically anything that helps you get into the lead will help you get targeted until the punishment is so big that not even your auto-upgrades can't get you back into the lead, and thus lose.

@Z

In my opinion, the real problem with WZIB now is the system of attacks and wastelands they are leaving. I haven't figured out exact formula for the size of wasteland but I think army income will play its role in it and that is bad. So upgrading army camps will not only lead to you being target of attacks (which wouldn't be such a problem if a wasteland size would be fixed or generally more balanced) but wastelands will be ridiculously large. At this point if you want to get 1st place in WZIB someday you probably need to pay coins and change your upgrades and persuade Fizzer that WZIB system is at this point really really bad and I say it as someone who is winning every second game.

Considering autoupgrades, many of them are useful in WZIB (including autoconquer, autosell, autosmelt,...) but sadly it doesnt work for army camps due to the system of attacks and wastelands they leave.

If I am making a run towards a victory and get unlucky being hit in endgame by random attack for example, I may have wastelands of almost 300 million (at army camps) and that is the end as you get hit multiple times after that as one with most territories. Comparing it to 200 thousand wasteland in early game with base army income....

@No One

What makes it worse is that if you have high % Auto-Conquer (40-50%), getting rid of those 300M wastelands is difficult, b/c it'll capture all territories up to 150M, never letting you get that last territory until all the small ones are gone, which is inefficient and puts you at a disadvantage.

Maybe a sorting algorithm would be good: When more and more players will have the chance to play battles they have to be devided into deciles, sorted by their #AP. So everybody who struggles with certain problems is fighting with people who have similar problems and manual interaction would be more important. It would also give fresh battle joiners the possibility to win and not lose motivation. Targeting could then also be more random.

@krinid

I have max autoconquer, max army camps myself. It works great unless you get hit at the wrong moment. Then it becomes disadvantage. It mostly depends on the map and number of players...generally I can say that in smaller map with less players, I can win most of the times with these upgrades and my "tactics"...in bigger maps with more players, it doesnt really work that well..

@pdogg

First, we don't have enough players for that and second in my opinion it wouldn't solve anything. It would lead to the very same misery game because attacks algorythm is simply "broken".

@No.One
"unless you get hit at the wrong moment"
This is very luck dependent. Especially when there are a few players who start to grow late and so at the very end start to rage with a lot of attacks. In these case, you have to be very lucky not to get more hits, especially since you will probably have the biggest army / sec. It’s easier not to do anything and bag the 15 BPs

@No One

I find it fairly random. I have my own "tactics" (and I suspect that all the folks who most often end up in the top 3 use the same or similar tactics) and sometimes they work well (1st or 2nd place), sometimes they work abominably (poised to take 1st, but then suddenly hit by attacks and end up 6th or lower).

In the game that just finished I was about to win, but then got hit by an attack, and despite not being 1st anymore, kept getting his by attacks for another 30 secs. Got back to 1st again, but then got hit by another long string of attacks even after dropped to 2nd and 3rd position. Not sure what's up with this targeting. Unless I had the most armies ... but not sure.

It's all just a matter of whether you're in the wrong place (1st place) at the wrong time (when everyone else has Attacks ready to go).

All in all, the problem with this mini-game is that it's designed to punish the strong and give the weak a chance. I've actually come in 1st place once by doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING all game long until the last couple minutes, and because everyone just attacked the crap out of each other, I was now in position to win. And actually won.

Part of the issue is that attacks have a very long travel time, which gives players a chance to capture their final territories without getting nuked. Downside of the travel time is that you can launch an attack at a player in 1st, but by the time the attacks hit that player he's already 11th.

If the attacks would change their target so they would always and up at whoever is 1st at the time they hit, you still give players in 1st a warning in advance, while not having the guy in 11th place get nuked to 30th place.

Agreed, if it were changed to whomever has the most territories only, it would reduce the odds of having someone who is in last get pummeled because they have Auto-Camp unlocked.

I spend the first half of the game upgrading mines and nothing else to prevent my camps from getting upgraded too early.