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please pray for them: 2012-12-17 19:13:39


Ironheart
Level 54
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I feel as though we are in a cycle which is like this -->
x makes a controversial comment
he is questioned by others
x defends his comment backed by philosophies
x 's comment is prodded,poked and rebuttal-ed
x defends his comment backed by philosophies
x 's comment is prodded,poked and rebuttal-ed
x defends his comment backed by philosophies
x 's comment is prodded,poked and rebuttal-ed

To be honest we have not made any change in pattern or significant progress in this debate.Carry on Gentlemen.
please pray for them: 2012-12-18 04:46:19


Guiguzi 
Level 58
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I agree with Ironheart. This whole process has made me care less about the value of human life. And I have become a nihilistic existentialist. X has convinced me of the meaninglessness of all things.
please pray for them: 2012-12-18 11:33:05


[WG] Warlightvet 
Level 17
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@lolowut, sorry about that, "no" was too extreme.
i agree, that the us has a 5X larger population
but if you compare 300 to 8000 deaths due to firearms (not sure if bombs and stuff are included, i'd assume its insignificant anyway) its proportionally a huge difference, since 300X5 = 1500, so its still 1500 VS 8000, so about 6X less.
please pray for them: 2012-12-18 14:08:31


À la recherche du temps perdu 
Level 35
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Ok since our great censor Ironheart said that the thread is becoming senseless (was it ever senseful?) this will be my last post here:


It is you who assume. It is obvious to me that nobody here is a Buddhist. I don't see why you are all so scared of a different perspective? As a christian, you don't think any Asian can learn anything from Jesus? So why not we from Buddha?

I love how many times I have to write the very same thing in order to let you understand it: while cattolicism is infulenced by the occidental one, so while I could (but I didn't) assume that a cattolic concept could be properly understood by an occidental guy.

What I will say for the last time is that you posted a buddhist oriented fragment pretending of convincing everybody that you were right from that very fragment.
And since you pretended this, you must have assumed that everybody are buddhists or already influenced from Buddhism (like you).
This is way I've made that joke...




Yep. So your point is, that the only way you could disagree with me is if you weren't looking at the world as it truly is?

you should know how much objectiveness is totally irrilevant.


I do. Everything is meaningless. Objectivity is meaningless. Subjectivity is meaningless. Philosophy is meaningless.


Before of the real argumentation, i just want to underline a paradox:

You became nihilist because the search for the truth is impossible, the consequence of nihilism is that the truth is irrilevant, but your becoming nihilistic was dued to the very search of truth and in this way you gave the truth the relevance that your philosophy denies...

Anyway let's go with the real argumentation:
Subjectivity is meaningless
Subjectivity is meaningless from an objective view, objective views don't exist.
Subjectivity is not meaningless from a subjective view, subjective views do exist.
The death of God (just to quote Nietzsche) is the death of objectivity, the raise of the UberMensch is the raise of subjectivity.
Subjectivity is irrilevant for everybody except the subject itself, since you are a subject your subjectivity is relevant; from your personal subjectivity you can give meaning to whatever has a meaning for you.
In this way every man produces his own meaning (and we are to the Heidegger part), so metaforically speaking every man (and not only the Uber one) is god, and everything has sence and relevance.
This is the reason why nihilism was totally overcomed in 20th century, this is the reason why Heidegger is considered the final philopher, and this is the reason also why I will elect myself as the winner of this discussion :D
please pray for them: 2012-12-18 17:04:51


Ironheart
Level 54
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Wooah warflow where are you getting your fact numbers from on death by guns in france and usa not even a source.800 people cannot die a year from guns because in New york sate 445 die from gun homicides(57% of murders in NY),470 in pennslyvania(74% of PLA).
And i don't think we can compare france to USA since in Pennslyvania with a lot less people there is more gun related homicides.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/sep/27/gun-crime-map-statistics
please pray for them: 2012-12-18 17:06:52


Ironheart
Level 54
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It's by 100,000 pop by the way so even worst.
please pray for them: 2012-12-18 18:16:40

mosquitero_retired
Level 40
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The US keep a database about accidents, the so called National Violent Death Report. It covers 16 US states with a total of about 82 Mio inhabitants. This is a nice number, because it equal the no of inhabitants in Germany.

http://wisqars.cdc.gov:8080/nvdrs/nvdrsDisplay.jsp

This link opens a mask to inquire the database. With respect to deaths caused by firearms, no matter if homicide, accident or else i get the number of 8,021 people in 2009, the latest year that can be inquired. In 2008 it were 7,862 people, in 2006 it were 7497. In 2006 for Germany 155 people did of firearms.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffenmissbrauch
^^only in German language only


This is a ratio of about 1:46, german firearm casualties:us firearm casualties.

The number of registered weapons in Germany is about 10 Million, source: see above. The number of weapons in the whole USA is estimated to 270 million, source: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states. So the weapons ratio normalized with respect to inhabitants is about 1:7.

The conclusions are quite clear: The more firearms, the more casualties. And the more qualified the weapons owners are, the less casualties, because you need to qualify in several very restictive ways to become a gun owner in Germany, much more restrictive than in even the most restrictive state in the US.

So reading the nationwide U.S. polls made shortly after the Newtown massacre, if to enforce more/better gun control, the vast majority of voters still sees no reason to do so. How disappointing. Looks like the only possible hope for less school-massacres in the U.S. is based on intesified praying. So lets all pray, but not for the victims, but for those still alive.
please pray for them: 2012-12-18 18:38:02

mosquitero_retired
Level 40
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Need to correct the 1:46 ratio. Its due to the ratio of german and us americans just about a 4th, because it looks like the database covers all states of the US and not just 16.

So the ratio is about: 1:11

Nevertheless, the conclusions to be drawn dont change.
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 20:22:35

[x] rosston
Level 3
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I come back and find this monster of a thread. This event saddened me.

I worry about x's grasp on humanity and reality. They say not feeling saddness/compassion is a sign of a sociopath. X please do not anything foolhardy.

As I go to church for Christmas these people will be in my prayers. Merry Christmas to you all.
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 21:29:04


{rp} Julius Caesar 
Level 46
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finally a good person
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 21:33:07


Addy the Dog 
Level 62
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As I go to church for Christmas these people will be in my prayers.


The poor judgment you demonstrate by belief in christianity is comparable to the same 'grasp on reality' (try using your own words next time), or lack thereof, shown by the other gun nuts in this thread.

Inability to look at facts and draw logical conclusions, and scarcity of independent thought, is what causes the high rate of church attendees and the high rate of death by firearms in America.

So go take your holier-than-thou patronisation elsewhere. You are indirectly responsible for those children's deaths. And learn how to spell sadness, you embarass yourself.


Ironheart and Gui, I wasn't trying to convert anyone. I was only defending myself from disgusting and baseless insults, which I am still receiving. I care as little for philosophy as I do the deaths of strangers, adult or child. I have no intention of changing anyone's mind, since it makes no difference to me what you believe in (though I would be glad for some company.) Take Trollussa, I have no intention of convincing him that philosophical suicide is less desirable than the real thing.

And if you feel I over-reacted to any of these subhuman scum, such as rosston, it is only because they so deeply offended me.
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 21:36:11


{rp} Julius Caesar 
Level 46
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x i have three words for you



go to hell


whether you believein it or not you should respect others religion and not try to make people believe in wht you believe rosston like myself actually have empathy and a conciense and we believe in God. stop bitching and let the thread go please
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 21:37:50


Addy the Dog 
Level 62
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And how dare you wish us a merry christmas. I thought we weren't allowed to be merry, because death exists in the world? Or are you completely over their deaths already, since that was a whole 5 days ago and there is royal baby news on the 24-hour news now?

please pray for them: 2012-12-19 21:42:46


Addy the Dog 
Level 62
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Watch me be a good Christian and turn the other cheek to Hell bender.

Though, I don't see how posting 4 minutes after you is stopping the thread from dying. Trust me, without the relative intelligence of Gui and Trollussa to contend with, I'd be glad to see it die.
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 23:02:15


Accept my Surrender
Level 10
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X though I am a fellow athiest, I completely disagree with you. Though many people die everyday in Africa, this does not mean we should give little importance to the deaths of innocent children. I believe instead of praying we mst take logical steps to prevent further massacres. Wether this be with gun control or whatever. You coming on here and blatantly trying to offend people is just sad, so sad I might actually consider praying for you. ( That would be the first time in my life) Anyway continue on with your hateful rants, I know I can not persuade you. Good day
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 23:07:13

[x] rosston
Level 3
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Recently there has been a surge of articles about kids who may cause trouble.

I worry with such a large emotionally charged response as yours. Please be good X.

If you don't believe in Christmas, have a happy holiday.
please pray for them: 2012-12-19 23:14:07


À la recherche du temps perdu 
Level 35
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Meh, guys this thread died with my amazing (even if expectable) philosophical victory,
why did you horrible subhumans dare to reply to the relatevely smart guy x, giving him the chance of revenging for the rape of his easy-rapeable philosophy?
He will be nihilistic, he will be cruel, he will be x!
please pray for them: 2012-12-20 00:50:35


Addy the Dog 
Level 62
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Nihilism isn't a philosophy. You didn't strike a victory, I just didn't bother to respond to you since you said it was your last post.

If you want a response, then I say that just because subjectivity is all we can achieve, doesn't make it meaningful.

If every single human, from Hitler to Hell bender to myself, can make their own meaning, then meaning becomes meaningless. If anything can become meaningful, simply by my decision that it is, including completely contradictory things, what is the point? Why should I make one thing meaningful and not the other? What if I give meaning to slaughtering children? Am I a God yet according to Nietzche? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_and_Loeb#Trial

If you believe in evolution, you cannot believe in free will. Humans are animals too, although most of them cannot see the wood for the trees. Ultimately we are controlled by genes. Where in evolution is there meaning? You may as well say that the planets in their orbits create their own meaning, and their meaning consists of revolving around a star until it engulfs them. A sad version of meaning.

The main thrust of existentialism seems to concern our choice of what is and isn't meaningful. But my determinism precludes me from this.

Nietzche is a lot of fun, especially when he calls women cows, and the psychology of his aphorisms is cutting. But I don't turn to him for advice on how to live my life.

You became nihilist because the search for the truth is impossible, the consequence of nihilism is that the truth is irrilevant, but your becoming nihilistic was dued to the very search of truth and in this way you gave the truth the relevance that your philosophy denies...


I found the truth, it is nihilism. Not impossible.

I made the presentiment that truth was meaningful when I began my 'search'. If I had begun with attempting to prove that truth was meaningful, I would have reached nihilism before I began.

The truth is irrelevent. I am not better than you, because I am right and you are wrong. We'll both die. Probably you are happier than me. Happiness too is meaningless, but I still want for it, because I am not as inhuman as some believe. Does the fact that I want for it make it meaningful? No, that is a naturalistic fallacy.

Incidentally, Nietzche would be disappoint with you, because he said to get rid of your slave morality and make your own :) not to keep the slave morality and then just quote Heidegger's arguments all the time.




Yes, rosston, I get outraged when someone calls me a sociopath based on little to no evidence. That's not a medical opinion, that's an insult. So fuck you.

And please be good rosston, try not to slaughter any unbelievers this Christmas, as your Holy Book commands you. And if God tells you to take a child up a mountain and sacrifice him, please don't, no matter what Kierkegaarde says.

And if you feel I over-reacted to any of these subhuman scum


I didn't expect anyone to interpret this correctly, since it is difficult in text, but this is merely irony.

Wether this be with gun control or whatever. You coming on here and blatantly trying to offend people is just sad


The first thing is exactly what I said. Moros and others mentioned African children. Sweet baby Richard Dawkins, what a bunch of morons you all are.

I never tried to offend anyone. Mine eyes were offended by Hell bender's original post. I was then sneered at by Boston Phoenix, Lolowut, Gui and others.

If my weltanschaaung offends you, it amuses me. If you think I'm not going to make jokes because of dukkha, you're wrong. Like Trollussa says, we make our own meaninglessness, and this is my particular brand.
please pray for them: 2012-12-20 01:25:36

[x] rosston
Level 3
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I don't intend to insult you, but your responses are odd considering the tragedy. And I personally find them troubling.
please pray for them: 2012-12-20 01:42:35


Addy the Dog 
Level 62
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It's no measure of health to be accepted by a sick society. I think Hell bender's response, which was to make a thread about it on the warlight forum, was odd. I find the foam-mouthed moral outrage of his subsequent comments to be very troubling indeed. I suppose you cultists are wary of anyone with an opposing viewpoint.

You seem to have backpedalled rapidly, by the way, I am no longer mentally ill, by the criteria "they" decided upon?
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