It's ok myhand. I copied it out of the truth. Look all around you? Seriously, where do you live? Probably in some bubble of yours.

You see the very recent IS group beheading an American Journalist? Where do we bad Jews do that kind of twisted shit? Yeah...didnt think so.

Maybe live in Israel for a year and then in any of the other 50 million Arab countries surrounding it and decide for yourself where life is better and more stable.

The problem with you is you think you are smart and try providing video 'evidence' of some occupation. These Arabs are refugees from all around (Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc.) (*edit: Just like the Jews there were refugees from mostly Europe/Russia) Don't be fooled. Nobody took anything away from anybody. Remember 1948 after the two state solution, literally all of them tried to kill us and steal our land? Too bad we are truly more intelligent and actually fight for our loved ones - unlike them - for blood.

We want love and freedom, Arabs exactly the opposite. No propaganda - it's all right there.

Edited 8/21/2014 11:21:04

Idfdoggy again your rants display only your blatant racism (Israelis want love and freedom, Arabs want hate and slavery) your superiortiy complex (we are truly more intelligent) and your lack of historical facts (nobody took anything away from anybody (haha)).

I strongly suggest you to read some history books that were not printed by the victors of the conflict, the people that won the war and needed to white wash their historical achievements.

It's ok myhand. I copied it out of the truth. Look all around you? Seriously, where do you live? Probably in some bubble of yours.

Is that so? I live in a bubble? Well then, lets look who lives in that bubble with me.

Stephen Hawking once said, the enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge.

Let`s start with

Human right organisations / NGOs.

International:

Amnesty International: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israel-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-2012

Peace Research Institute in Middle East (PRIME) : http://vispo.com/PRIME/truthandreconciliation.htm

Active Stills: http://www.activestills.org/about.php

Israeli:

Gisha Legal center for freedom of movement: http://gisha.org/about/about-gisha

B'Tselem: http://www.btselem.org/publications/47_year_long_temporary_occupation

Courage to refuse: http://www.seruv.org.il/english/

Refusers soldiarity network: http://www.refusersolidarity.net/about

Yesh G'vul: http://books.google.de/books?id=_XLQlsePFdQC&pg=PA29&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Phsycians for Human Rights: http://www.phr.org.il/default.asp?PageID=145

Movement for the demilitarization of Israeli Society : http://www.newprofile.org/english/militarismen

Breaking the silence : http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/about/organization

Birthright unplugged: http://www.birthrightunplugged.org/staff

Givat Haviva: http://www.givathaviva.org.il/english/info/MissionandProfile.htm

Kibush - Occupation magazine: http://www.kibush.co.il/

Machsom Watch : http://www.machsomwatch.org/en/hebron_kindergarten_children_are_security_threat

Rabbis for Human Rights: http://rhr.org.il/eng/about/

Yesh Din Volunteers for human rights: http://www.yesh-din.org/cat.asp?catid=2

Zochrot: http://zochrot.org/en

Israeli - Palestinian:

Israeli Palestine Center of Research and Information: http://issuu.com/ipcri/docs/ipcri_annual_report_2012

Who profits: http://whoprofits.org/content/about-who-profits

Combatants for peace: http://cfpeace.org/?page_id=2

Coalition of women for peace: http://www.coalitionofwomen.org/?page_id=322&lang=en

Ossim Shalom Social Workers for peace: http://www.ossim-shalom.org.il/document/68334,7503,5.aspx

Palestinian:

Palestine Center for Human Rights: http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3027&Itemid=182

lets continue with internationally reknowned scholars:

Noam Chomsky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV3YnZnL99M (new york times called him the most important intellectual alive)

Norman Finkelstein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiW8i88LveA

Richard Falk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znNZDFK4wBo (Appointed United Nations Special Rapporteur on "the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967" in 2008)

Jean Ziegler http://aawisraelpalestine.blogspot.de/2006/10/extracts-from-report-of-malnutrition-in.html (appointed UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food in 2000 until 2008)



The UN:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/01/27/rogue-state-israeli-violations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/

This is a very icomprehensive list of the countless human right organizations, scholars and international agencies that all come to similiar conclusions.
If this is the bubble I live in and the company I keep, I am glad i live in that bubble called reality.


The influence of AIPAC on US and other western massmedia is undeniable. Blunt lies and countless lies through omission formed a twisted image of Israel that makes people believe Israel is the victim in this conflict. This couldnt be further from the truth. It`s impossible for an unbiased person to not acknowledge that massive amount of evidence that speaks against it. I urge everyone to follow a link or two and to watch a video or two posted here and to start thinking and evaluating the conflict by yourself.

Edited 8/21/2014 14:35:55

No offence but Im not reading all of that. Which of those links would you recommend? Ideally i want something succinct and big picture, 2nd hand meta analysis.

Try the videos by Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky and Richard Falk I provided.
In that order of my personal preference. That should be what you ask for allthough it can be a bit dull at times, since its in depth information and scholastic.

Edited 8/21/2014 15:07:28

I've read everything here, and as Chinese nationality I don't have cause to support or oppose either sides. From what I observe solely from this thread, I see that the world tends to support Gaza, while most Israeli support is coming from Israeli themselves. Fair enough.

I don't really see a both sided argument here. Myhandh having a very strong dislike towards Israel, X being openly hostile, and what I see from Israelis (iefdoggy and darkness) is blind patriotism, which is understandable, except its obvious that the problem comes from both sides. And theres Arun, whose comments I didn't read since reading anything by Arun lowers my IQ immediately. :)

I did some internet research, this is a fair, factual 11 points article on this issue.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/16/5904691/hamas-israel-gaza-11-things

Here are some notable points i found interesting.

- Israel has maintained a blockade against Gaza. Controlling naval and land pathways. For a place like Gaza, with Egypt being reluctant to help, this creates a humanitarian crisis.

- The tunnels that are so widely disputed actually do carry food, granted, some of them may be used to transport terrorists and weapons too.

- Hamas is democratically elected, but doesn't recognize Israel

- Hamas isn't the only militant group in Gaza. There are jihdist groups that are more interested in violence than politics.

Here is a table of causalities between the two sides





I think its pretty obvious that the problem oringiates from both sides, but it seems pretty obvious to me that Israel is the agressor, guilty of blockading and killing innocents. While i'm sure Gaza isnt faultless on this matter too, the charts illustrates, quite clearly, Israel does it on a greater scale.

The following is my opinion:

What I think should happen?
Israel should use its superior strength to try to organize peace talks.

What will probably happen?
The Israel has the US on its side despite much of the world against them. The US is so influential that nothing much will happen.

Edited 8/21/2014 15:27:24

As with most things, this situation seems to be a result of a lot of people making independent decisions in their own best interest with no thought to what would happen big picture-wise. noone is in charge and those with some power are all beholden to something that for the most part forces their hand. I am both beholden to nothing but myself and have no power. As per usual what we need is (in game theory language) a gardener. Someone with uncontestable power to coordinate everyones choices for everyones best interest. The obvious answer is to say that the US would be that gardener but the government has already been sucked in and is part of the problem. They have massive power and are forced to use it in order to get votes from US jews. Could I be the gardener? Messiah complex aside, no, im going to go play more starcraft.

If Hamas was building up its organization outside the homes of residents did not have a lot of dead ... anyway you Modiaim advance and check if there are no residents before the bomb ... how should loosen the leash if there is a terrorist organization that wants to kill us?
Please note that the human rights organization UN Palestinian is 99% ... more than about Palestinian refugees are distributing certificates for their children despite the inherited emissions, because it has a lot of refugees.
Hamas ceasefires all shot so how will an agreement?
Muslim and Arab culture wants to kill us ... you know what it Jihad? Soon you will learn what is happening in Iraq

If a refugee was inherited I considered a refugee

UNRWA school was rockets..Then surprise you why we do not believe in these organizations? They get their money as long as there are refugees, so they have an interest in doing it..

All this hate towards Jews. Incredible, really. Most of you hypocrites

We want love and freedom, Arabs exactly the opposite.

Anti-Semitism (to jews) = bad

Anti-Semitism (to muslims) = good

(Your) Hypocrisy = right

(Other people's) Hypocrisy = wrong

You racist fucking scum. Of everyone in Israel I hope you are hit by a missile first. (Joint first with everyone in Israel)

I don't really see a both sided argument here. Myhandh having a very strong dislike towards Israel, X being openly hostile

Yeah, you also won't find any balanced opinions about adolf hitler. that's because you're either a Nazi or not, just like you're either a Zionist or not. Not everything has two sides to it.

Just because Hamas kill people doesn't make Israel right about anything. The allies killed people. Hundreds of thousands of German and Japanese civilians were murdered. That doesn't alter your views on the axis. Just because I say Israel shouldn't exist, doesn't imply any opinion about Hamas at all, nor any other country, "Arab" or otherwise.

It's not a morality competition of how many people each side killed. It's not about which group of people would hypothetically be superior at governance (based on racist extrapolations). Israel shouldn't exist. No statistic of casualties can change that. You equivocating hand-wringing centrist creep.

Can I kinda divide the jews im antisemetic against to one side?

What does any of this have to do with Judaism? We're talking about zionism. Congratulations stupid, you just capitulated to a false paradigm.

Re-read IDF's comments. What he's saying is that it's okay to kill people and take their property because of their race. Does that perhaps remind you of anything that took place in the country he currently resides, 70/80 years ago? Jews talk about it a lot? Germans don't? Has an official day of remembrance? Begins with a capital H ... Fuck, what's it called.

( X says overpopulation is a problem. Refuses urge to begin debate only to be mocked as well as derail the topic. )

[Genghis doesn't understand basic concepts of population size and climate change. I defeat urge to parodise rhetorical device.]

Edited 8/22/2014 11:30:18

See what I mean? ^

Yes, Israel has a right to exist, and even religious history ... Palestinian Arabs are also British Mandate in general are not a legally then they have no recourse to reclaim sovereignty or state.
Israel and took some houses? This settlement also empty land, it's all the fault of refugees Arab countries were told to go out and listen to them ... so has the West Bank and Gaza who suddenly became a nation, and those who remained became a citizen, there are 1.5 million Arabs in Israel if full citizenship ... so on confuse the mind. And who says that Palestinians descendants of the Canaanites is a liar, who tells the story of Palestine is a liar, addled and who he wants to go to Arab rule Arab states.
Tell me what nation are you? I have a problem and if Islam ... why? Because of Jihad and all who tell the story of the grandmother of "human relations" is a lie your commands have to kill, and Islam by Islam so do not play dumb and see you give them to slaughter us? Then you complete idiot
If they want to stop to check what is happening in Gaza so that will change their password on killing Jews, disintegrate weapons and stop firing rockets.
Do you know what a refugee camp in Gaza? 4-3 storey apartment,,, real help refugees in Africa and Ukraine not to homeowners.

ן have inafe of u all racist israel is trying the best save the middle east from terorists

btw some of the players here are nazis like mulva that all his insults will be reported i ask we all stop this chat becuse of course we won and i'm fucking glud that my country kill terorists we will free gaza with or without ur aid

Viva Le Zion!!!! Go to hell resist

Edited 8/24/2014 14:19:57

I personally think both cultures have rights to the region.

Despite your terrible english i will adress the points you made elroi.

But since that are so many wrong points you make here, I will adress them in a seperate thread at another time.

Israel is a police state, it is illegaly founded and it is enforcing fascist policies.

This is an example of how Israel is respecting free speech and reacting to critism. If this what they do with an American Jew in front of video cameras, you really dont need much imagination to know what they do with a Palestinian when there are no cameras at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgWBsCSyjkY

Edited 8/24/2014 16:52:30

I don't really have a side in this.The whole cnflict is odd considering Israelis and Arabs are both semites.Jews and Arabs have had a common history and in the past century that has changed.Whether israel is a legitamate state or not does not matter anymore, several generations of israeli jews haave now settled in israel it's now as much ther home as the arabs it's as realistic as sending or americans back to either europe,asia or africa.
But some people won't stop attacking israel till it's gone whilst israel's retaliation are heavy handed and end up killing more civilians than terrorists.I don't see the issue being solved everunless peace talks are reached or and palestine are abolished as a state and a new secular state is made not for the jews or for the Arabs but any one in the region.

Sorry for bad English .... and what this video I do not know if Eddie see.
Israel is not a fascist army I agree it is important there than many countries but that is because our security situation.
All racist statement and especially against Arabs in Israel are severely punished.
What has the video?

lol u r so dumbass myhand israel isnt a police state idk who is the faggot that showed u this lie video

israel is the most democratic nation in asia and the only nation with human rights in middle east