This issue keeps popping up and is especially true for Europe Huge. I was going to write out details, but I don't want to run afoul of the "spoiler" rules. Of the 18 items I can currently craft, the only items that are profitable (i.e. sell value > sell value of ingredients) are items that only require one type of bar. So if you craft a more complicated item, you lose a very significant amount of potential income. And the techs at this point all require the simpler items. Doesn't that make the complicated items pointless? Even if later techs require more complicated items, it still renders the recipes worthless near the time you acquire the recipes.

Bear in mind this partially depends on AP advancements, the level tech tree and artifacts. Is it possible you’ve put serious AP into Ore Sell Value?

Also, can you add a little more detail here? I mentally group the alloys into:
- 1+ ingredient (Copper -> Platinum)
- 2+ ingredient (Titanium -> something like Lanthanum)
- Ingredients + alloy (Something like Unobtanium onwards)

And I mentally group the items into:
- Requires dozens (Copper Wire -> something like Glass)
- Requires hundreds (Bolt, Rivet, Struct, onwards)
- Requires other items

Which item type and which inflection point are you talking about here?

I have personally found the “Requires Other Items” (see above) are annoying to go after. The Boiling Flasks and Explosive Bolts of the world sell for roughly the same amount per crafter-hour and it’s just annoying to micromanage the “Requires Dozens” items for a fraction of your total income.

Is this what you’re talking about?

Hey,

I don't want to dictate your playing-style, choose whatever suites you, but let me add some general things here, that you might already be aware of, but perhaps also for others reading this. And yes, I know that I'm not at the point in the Idle-"Campaign" that you two are so there will likely be no ultimate solution for your problem here:
- In my experience it's hard to assign a fixed number to a recipe's profit because of all those techs. Most of the time the tipping point is the next tech that then again makes items way more profitable than before (for me, the first ore sell price increment makes all alloys not profitable most of the time). So having only one recipe that makes profit is hardly a nice situation but rarely a longer lasting one.
- If you don't need the recipe for an immediate tech, why did you claim it? I know situations where I claimed a recipe without having the ingredients yet, just because I got it on my way to some other territory, but then you can just ignore it. No-one forces you to let your smelter/crafter running. There is even an option to deactivate them.
- You can always choose to ignore the techs entirely and only craft for profit. Then, choosing the most profitable recipe is clearly the way to go. But if you are like me, then you need all those recipes to unlock every single one of the techs. I hardly look at the profit at all unless I have all techs visible and most of the requirements crafted. So let's just say, recipes are worth more than their profit (at least for some players).

TLDR; Be grateful that you have recipes at all that make profit. Although seeing your post and the extreme situation you described makes me wonder whether there might be some fine-tuning necessary for the recipes and item prices.

Sorry for the delay. I don't check the forums regularly. Graemes, your last sentence is what I'm talking about, but to a more severe extent. The "requires dozens" items are actually negative profit. I'll make up an example to illustrate. Let's say Carpet requires 20 Cotton and Carpet sells for 1M, but Cotton sells for 100K. Then why would you ever make Carpet? This isn't affected by AP since none of the AP I'm aware of changes the relative value of items. I haven't invested any AP into ore/alloy sell prices, so I don't see how these negative-price items could ever be positive.

Now, I have reached a stage in Europe Huge in which some of these negative-profit items are necessary for techs. So they at least have some minimal purpose now, but still I feel like there's a missed opportunity for depth to this level and others like it.

I guess I'm never at a point where my crafters are NOT making items that I need for tech. At least not until the very end game. Everything up through metal sheets and even twine/glass that I make goes into a technology. It's only when I hit things like struct/rivet+ that I end up with extra that can be sold.

I wonder if this is much like the earlier debate about whether Market Raid is a good power (where it very much depends on what level you're playing).

Edited 1/20/2021 17:11:31

You might be playing the game wrong. You are not supposed to rely on bars or ingredients for income, but to buy coins and pay your way through the grind. This is my subjective understanding.

I would agree with the main point, at least when I was still trying Idle, some time in october.


Please fix the achievements...

pls.fix the achievements ^