xeno i really don't wish to argue with you. original plan was not to put them here but is what it is. im done complaining

Thank you Fizzer for responding, not my place to tell you how to run your game! Warzone Classic is amazing

Edited 9/16/2021 00:40:52

CW matchmaking is isomorphic to min-weight matching, which has been solved since 1961 (https://github.com/dwarfmaster/blossom). The present state of the art, the Micali-Vazirani algorithm, has been around since 1980 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/dispelling-an-old-myth-about-an-ancient-algorithm/). Since at least 2014, we've had a linear-time approximate solution too (https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~pettie/papers/ApproxMWM-JACM.pdf). At least the first solution I mentioned is widely available with many permissively licensed open-source re-implementations.

I'm really curious about what happened here. It's jarring when a top-to-bottom greedy matchmaking algorithm remains the best option even after running into the same adversarial case (high participation by a low-rated clan results in deterministic low rates of matchmaking success) at least twice (TLA, yolo swag). Is there some gap in the ecosystem around Unity?

Edited 9/16/2021 01:46:31

Ultimately, the matchmaking system was working well for you, until you shot yourselves in the foot.

No, I'd blame that on the untimely death of TSFH

Anyway, you're deliberately ignoring the bigger issue which I highlighted in my first post in this thread:
If a bunch of new players came to the game and started a clan, they would have this problem. If a bunch of old players decided to break away from their previous clans and start an offshoot, this would happen.

Tacky is correct in his assessment that the current system privileges established clans and slows the growth of new ones.
Maybe that's the price to pay for accommodating other concerns, but it is at the very least a legitimate grievance and a trade-off.

Maybe that's the price to pay for accommodating other concerns, but it is at the very least a legitimate grievance and a trade-off.

That's not the price to pay. The trade-off doesn't exist. This algorithmic problem was solved back when the average house in the US cost $12,500.

fizzer dodged all the questions

The advantage of the current algorithm is that it matches players with similar ratings, which maximizes the quality of each game that is created.
Oh, come on! That holds only if every clan has just handful of representants or most players in a clan have similar skill level, for most clans. Spolier alert: most current clans have few "elite" players and then rest is "normal". Just take a look at deviation of CW winrate in any clan.
Literally sorting players by 1v1 winrate instead of clan rating and then doing the current algorytm would currently:
a) create more games
b) create more balanced games

Edited 9/16/2021 03:35:08

What happened to Python?

Following players are in yolo swag yoyoyo: Dom365, Wini [20], Tac(ky)tical, Platinum.
Does it answer your question of what happened to scalies?

Edited 9/16/2021 13:03:27

Why make such a big issue just for clan wars. If it was increasing member cap, then i would understand and support. But tbf its your fault to use yolo when you knew it was so low in rating. Why didnt you use Harmony/create a new clan? So please stop making a big issue and try to change clan wars cause the fuss about clan wars rating isnt worth it. Fizzer is doing his best, so start appriciating him rather than giving him stupid advices.

Edited 9/16/2021 13:02:40

ah well I do appreciate Fizzer, don't think that was ever an issue.

please stay off my thread :D

lol if you want all people who support the current matchmaking to stay off this thread then how can their be a fair judgment about the current matchmaking with majority of supporters not staying in this thread. I dont think any clan has a problem with matchmaking except for yolo. And if you had a problem, then why didnt you make a forum in S1 or S2. Its clear that you want yolo to be 1st in clan wars(I too wish for Masters to be defeated), but that doesnt justify why you are creating a thread and trying to address a problem that never was. More than 100 clans play clan wars and none of them complained(Except TLA in the early seasons), so i dont see a point to change clan wars matchmaking. You guys had so many clans with you.... Lynx, Outlaws, Harmony. I am quite sure you would be supporting fizzers rating system if you were using one of these clans. But i dont think you would wantto use a clan with high rating as your chances of 1st becomes lesser due to very strong matchmaking every season.

I criticized the matchmaking on the very first day of clan wars already, and so did pretty much all the people who have a decent understanding of the matter and/or how competitive or casual events should be set up.
This is neither the first nor the last thread of this kind. I don't think you support the current matchmaking Arrow, you just don't oppose it because you lack the understanding of it to see the problems, which is fair.

To Fizzer I can only say, that your explanations and attempts to turn down the feedback isn't working out, because visibly you bully people away from your events.
People who queue 2 times a day without getting a game have a bad retention rate to the event, this isn't very hard to understand. This isn't a big problem with the people who actually point this out to you (like me), because we'll be continuing to play this game regardless, but it's a big deal for your typical casual player, who's just silently getting rid of this new app on their smartphone.

That might be true @BBJ. I dont like the matchmaking system, but till now, i dont see a problem/have no reason to oppose it and its the best way to create games tbf. The other thing that fizzer could do was make a clan wars rating per person(by winrate or whatever). He could also make clan wars like QM so that more people would participate(Many people dont play because they cant play on specific timeslots).

The only thing i really find to be an issue is the new member cap of all new clans. This gives old clans a very big advantage. I had suggested it to fizzer many times to increase clans member cap for some coins. I was also willing to pay him 2k extra coins to increase Excel member cap to unlimited at one point of time, but fizzer just didnt wantto do it.

Wont you have an advantage by this matchmaking, when your rating is below top CW clans but higher than the bottom clans?
I mean in regard that you get easier opponents for quite some time.

EDIT: I never said I have a clue.

Edited 9/16/2021 14:31:04

arrow stop talking out your ass, you cant bribe people with coins on the forum, so i doubt anyone will agree with you :D

there is no harm in criticising a broken system, and fizzer completely ignores all the comments made by the people.

he replied to the most arbitrary comments in this thread. people who invest time to play this game do have a say in what they feel about stuff.

I am quite sure you would be supporting fizzers rating system if you were using one of these clans.

Wrong - many of us voiced concern when this happened for TLA as well. Simply put, it's just not fair for lower rated clans to not get games.

Now take Yolo out of the equation. We're @ rating 25.6 now, approaching a point where we'll soon get a decent stream of games and our problem will be resolved. Implementing a fix to the matchmaking algorithm at this point would likely be too late to help us this season before we fix the problem ourselves by further raising our rating. So this isn't a Yolo discussion anymore.

But the problem still exists. We started this season at -45 rating. New clans start at 0, pretty much as bad. And if a new clan loses their first few games, guess what -> negative rating, back to the problem Yolo/TLA had (actually not sure if TLA had negative rating or just 0).

So the problem at this point still exists for new clans. Is CW meant to be friendly to new players and new clans? Well then a fix should be implemented. Beep Beep's point is well made - the people here commenting in this forum aren't the target for these recommended changes. We already play & love WZ, and we'll likely persist through most of the junky aspects b/c we love the game. It's the weaker, newer players that are trying out CW and this could strongly impact their impression of WZ. Join a clan, make time to join a CW timeslot, get no games, repeat the process. If I were a new player, I highly doubt I'd try more than 2-3 times before giving up. Already this season, me as a dedicated player, I've already been rejected from 6 timeslots, and there will probably be more. Same thing will happen to new clans. Why do this to new CW players in new clans?

The advantage of the current algorithm is that it matches players with similar ratings, which maximizes the quality of each game that is created.

The scenario this statement describes isn't complete. Balth addressed the first part, elite vs regular players - it makes a difference; elite from 1 clan vs non-elite of another clan where both are high rated clans can still be a blow out, eg: "low quality"). So even the current algorithm doesn't truly guarantee high quality games. If you really want to match players of equal strength, you need to match both Clan and Individual ratings together as best as possible within the players available in a timeslot.

But there is a second missing component to this statement - the "quality" of the games that don't get scheduled. If matching players of similar clan ratings is considered "high quality" (arguable as stated above but let's go with that premise), what's the quality of no game at all? It's the worst possible quality available, it's 0 quality, maybe even negative quality b/c a player has invested time and gotten nothing for it, just ended up wasting time.

If we're worried about "Quality", pls worry about the Quality of the whole CW experience. Rallying a clan together, getting players to join timeslots, to then get no games, this is a serious issue with Quality of Experience. And this isn't justified by saying that someone else got a higher quality game.

no need to feed the troll krinid, he just wants attention