if you play 75% as if it were 0% you will be frustrated. if you play the luck to add more armies for important attacks you won't be frustrated as much. play the settings. if you want a hypercompetitive ladder, 75% isn't the answer (and neither is anything that only allows members and doesn't allow the many good non-members to play). if you want fun and optimal participation, it is the only option (there are more non-members than members).

how many truly good (ie capable of holding 1st place for longer than a week) 3v3 teams can be put together with only members? 2? 3? how competitive is that? the best 2 to 3 teams smoking everyone else? that is just playing old style #Elite! realtime games with the occasional game against one of the other top teams. sounds like the static 2v2 ladder but with greater certainty that the better team beats the teams that will never reach 1st.

Qi does have a point, which was why i initially aimed for random teams. but not many folks joined in on the eastasia 3vs3 random ladder :S

Gnuffone says this one will have more participation, i'm testing that theory.

I wasn't thinking of 75% luck as the pre-requisite for non-members, but only as a standalone settings. If it's required to get more people involved, then that makes more sense in a lot of ways.

i like random team too.
but only 19 people join other CLOT, and i was thinking that at least 50 people was interest.
so:
A) maybe they don't like template
B) they don't like random team
C) they aren't interestend to join an unofficial ladder.

also allow non-member = 75% --> some people member they will not join bc dislike 75%...

I agree with QI I don't understand why you would make it fixed teams unless you will have more than 20 teams what is the difference between this and a RR tournament

http://poll.pollcode.com/58gx4

PS: I love the random teammate idea, but I'm not a big fan of the template so I decided not to join.

Gui, I always wanted 3vs3 ladder to be the ultimate competetive scene and I stated before, I'd prefer random teammates. Recently I exchanged a few e-mails with Fizzer about the possibility of making europe 3vs3 random teams for season X and I sent him my proposition how to calculate ratings (note that it is easier to do in the seasonal form).

In any case ps, tell me is it possible to implement the following pseudo code:

1) Have the 1vs1 algorithm from 1vs1 ladder (let's call it L(a,b) where it calculates the increase in rating of the first player given ratings a,b and deacrease in rating for the 2nd player)
2) Draw random teammates when possible from my range (similar range to 1vs1 ladder)
3) After drawing make temporary team ratings equal to the mean of teammates' rankings
4) Use temporary ratings to pair up teams within range
5) With participants A,B,C vs D,E,F with respective rankings a,b,c,d,e,f player A after winning gets L(a,(d+e+f)/3) points and the others respectively the same
6) Update ladder standings after every game

That is imo the best possible setting to utilise random teams ladder (actually it'd be more accurate to use quadratic mean instead of arithmetic mean, because since there is the team chat allowed, the strongest player can help weaker players, so there should be a small deviation towards highest ranking in the team).

I'm in this one if teams are random.

If the teams are random, I'd like to play if you'll have me.

I think the reason that fewer people join the CLOT ladders is because of communication problems. I didn't even hear about the existence of the other 3v3 ladder until reading about it in this thread. I stopped reading the CLOT board a while ago when it was all about coding and not about ladders (yet).

Maybe Fizzer would be willing to add an interface to at least show which CLOT ladders are active and maybe show various players' performances from those ladders. I really don't find the idea of going to an outside website very appealing, especially when I have to go find that website somehow.

It is a problem :/

PS puts the game like on every game personal message so although you can't copy/paste, at least you can find the site after joining.

interested in random teammates

otherwise sign up this team
Me
Samantha http://warlight.net/Profile?p=563983788
Biggreen http://warlight.net/Profile?p=828711391

isn't it curious that the things gnuff supports end up with a lot of votes:

16% vs 0%:
- 3v3 gnuff cares: http://poll.pollcode.com/etfpk_result?v (75% of 20 votes)
- 1v1 gnuff doesn't really care: http://poll.pollcode.com/bqjp5_result?v (62% of 55 votes)

best player votes: http://warlight.net/Forum/Thread?ThreadID=5768
- 1v1: 17 of 46 votes (over 50% of the first 25 votes when someone voted multiple times)
- team: 18 of 43 votes (again, over 50% of the first 25 votes when someone voted multiple times)

The 1v1 vote could be explained: near top of 1v1 ladder, won challenges. But people who really know gnuff know he is better at playing alone than with other people. So the team vote is an anomaly, especially since he is 0-2 in getting to 1st place on the 2v2 ladder. (In contrast HHH has done it 3-4 times, I've done it 3 times, and unknown has twice: getting to 1st on the 2v2 is much easier than the 1v1 ladder).

Do you think gnuff has been voting multiple times for things he supports?
http://poll.pollcode.com/85fy9

also:

Qi   - 04/16/2013 14:54:45 "I think Gnuff's alts are voting."

[WM] Gnuffone   - 04/16/2013 14:56:54 "nope, to be honest i don't have voted yet. also if i remember right, if you try to vote again, you are not allowed to do it. also i wouldn't vote for myself...."

1. when someone was voting multiple times, gnuff was around
2. he admits to trying to vote multiple times with his alts (showing a desire to do so)

i'll finish implementing and testing this ladder first. seems there are 2 teams already, just missing the template, i'll take whatever is most voted on the poll.

after i'm done setting this one up, i'll revamp the eastasia 3vs3 random teams to have rotating templates (to include the so beloved europe) and rename it to 3vs3 random teams ladder and post a new thread about it hoping that more people will join it.

only then i'll figure out how to improve the ratings system.

also:

Qi - 04/16/2013 14:54:45 "I think Gnuff's alts are voting."

[WM] Gnuffone - 04/16/2013 14:56:54 "nope, to be honest i don't have voted yet. also if i remember right, if you try to vote again, you are not allowed to do it. also i wouldn't vote for myself...."

1. when someone was voting multiple times, gnuff was around
2. he admits to trying to vote multiple times with his alts (showing a desire to do so)

yeah, i don't vote for myself bc i am not the best 1v1s or teamplayer.
1) i am always around in this days...
2) i try to vote with multiple times ONLY for check if is really allowed, and it isn't...

By Gnuffone's alts Gui meant the rest of [WM] :P
Or it's all a clever scheme to get dethroned as the warlight master of clones.

无中生有 = forum fun