How patronising can you be Catbus? Could you be more?

About your post Ironheart...

The point being made in the first paragraph is that regardless of the validity of religious beliefs, the world still exists. This overlooks the fact that religion is not a necessity; a world without it (or with a different form of it) could be a better place. Furthermore, the way religion is incorporated into society today will shape the future, so considering it as "out of our hands" seems pretty irresponsible to me. I'm not going to accept something just because I can't disprove it without a doubt.

The second paragraph as a whole seems like total BS to me. I'd like to see some studies showing how "believers" are healthier people. I don't think an hour of church on a Sunday is going to make or break my social life either.

Next, the writer calls atheists/agnostics a bunch of lazy pork-eating sluts while forgetting to mention anything about their beliefs, thinking, etc. I didn't wake up one day and think "I hate wasting my Sunday mornings in church. Hey, why don't I become an atheist." The whole point of a belief is that you believe it. If you choose a belief out of ease (being born into it?) you really can't say you believe it.

"There's nothing wrong with what we have right now." Are you kidding me? Their are plenty of problems caused by or associated with religion. I'm not going to commit to your belief system because it's supposedly a good thing according to you.

As an atheist, I don't mind religion at all. I do become irritated, however, when people try to turn religion into a fight, or a competition. Keep it to yourself, or discuss it academically and objectively, but please try to be logical and rational while doing so.

alright guys
i'll prove that god does not exist
but first
please prove to me that unicorns don't exist
:)
because i believe in unicorns, even though there's no evidence i believe in them and they really exist if you can't prove they don't.

:)

I haven't had time to reply to the first page , and now there are 6, o well I should get started. 1. thanks for asking Qi I am a Christian who dosen't regularly attend church. I don't think Christianity is becoming radicalized, but the attacks on it are getting more support and media coverage. Yes fundimentalists are going overboard by saying "beleive like I do or you will go to hell". Liberal athiests go too for when they say all fundimentalists are bigots. It is clear from reading these posts( a small microcausim of the world : most people don't listen to each other, they just react to buzzwords with memorized quotes they have not bothered to think through. 2. A good analogy : The USA government was started with lofty ideals:Justice and Freedom ; Just becuse corrupt humans use our government to commit atrocitys on our own people and the world does not diminish the ideals of justice and freedom. Christ gave us a mandate: Justice and Freedom (yes freedom, you have free will, you can say no to God) just because bad individuals use religion and the church to commit atrocitys does not diminish the original message of Jesus 3.Believing is good: Science has proven in the fields of Mental and Physical Health beleiveing in something is better than not beleiving Warlight Vet You could not beileve your aunt really cared about you. you did not hear what she said. 4.My belief in God affects every decision I make, some times with bad results. We all have a tendecy in Warlight to help the underdog when given a choice of two people who might win . In my life it is offten like this I give without expecting benifit, the benifit is in how it makes me feel. Which brings me to my last point for today. 5.We all need to trust our gut feelings and go with our intuition more often.sometimes that is all we have to go on. and it is correct more often than we realize , unless you practice then it gets better and better

It's good that atheists have their own religion. Christians believe in god and love Jesus. Atheists believe in the non-existence of gods and hate Christians. Maybe you guys can organize a church somewhere to talk about how god doesn't exist and how stupid Christians are. If you really get excited, talk about unicorns and purple dragons, because it seems you have a sacred book about animals from fairy tales that you must all read in order to better refute people whoqquestion your faith in nothingness.

Maybe you guys can organize a church somewhere to talk about how god doesn't exist and how stupid Christians are.

teehee...

Warlightvet, you believe in unicorns too? Glad i'm not the only one, they almost took me to a mental institute for that.

maybe I am just being paranoid: I beleive there is a battle between good and evil of biblical proportion in America today and it is not being covered by the media. My Christianity did help me to understand the ramifications, however it was my intrest in science which brought it to my attention. It is clear that the resources of America are being shipped offshore. It is clear we mistreat our soilders. We allow an american to be arrested, detained forever, tourted, his childred tourted(yes it is allowed, I looked it up). All of this was predicted in the novels 1984, and Brave New world. The authors of these books had inside info: they had friends in the elite. The elite have published thier plans because they are confident and arrogent, as well they should be.few are paying attention. Fewer still speak out. So You can all see Evil Exists what does this say or prove about Good?

I always thought atheists had interesting philosophical reasons and scientific arguments for why they are atheists. But, so far, all I've heard from them is:

- "We are more intelligent than Christians, therefore atheism."
- "Organized Christian religions have many problems, therefore atheism."
- "We are better at copying and pasting Google search quotes, therefore atheism."
- "We don't believe in unicorns and purple dragons, therefore atheism."
- "Ancient polytheists were wiser than contemporary theists, therefore atheism."

Again, where is the wisdom and science in atheism?

Qi, I'm an atheist because it feels more logical in my own mind. Just because a few non-religious individuals aren't spewing out rhetoric that will be quoted for centuries to come doesn't mean they are unwise or unscientific. I personally believe there have been many valid points made from Aranka to Warlightvet to yourself. This thread is at least stimulating thought in my own mind, and that's more than most can expect from the forum of an online game.

Back to the subject of reality:

*Morality I meant

"If there are exceptions and 'every' should, in reality, be 'sometimes' or 'usually', how do you expect others to take you seriously when your quote has flawed logic?" - Qi

"If you copy and paste the picture of a dead guy when he was old and crusty and has his fingers intertwined as if he is mentally handicapped, your argument gains infinitely in value." - Qi

"If you are an old geezer with disheveled hair, whatever you say in your lifetime is merely opinion. But, upon dying, your words transcend the realm of opinion and become facts, especially if parrotted by someone who probably never read your books." - Qi

You're wrong there QI....I actually did read his books.

But you can go on with your crusades all you like :D

Crusade? A little hyperbole every now and then doesn't harm anyone.

I'm asking for a a coherent argument in favor of atheism that is backed by logic, reason, and science.

What you provide is not it. If a high school student wrote that as an essay answer to a question about the role of religion in history, I wouldn't give the student full credit. Maybe such ideas blow your teenage mind. But I'm not interested at all with faulty logic and subjective tunnel vision from an angry old man who does not understand history.

why does anyone believe in god?
because they were told to, that's the only possible reason except if you saw him yourself or had some sort of a revelation.
most likely it was parents and people close to them, in their community.
My reason for not believing is that there is absolutely no reason for there to be a god, there is no evidence whatsoever and i can imagine how the idea of one could have come through fear of the unknown, for example death and what comes after it.

As for believing in god i have absolutely nothing against it, but i am strongly against the church because they've used their power, that people believe that they'll suffer eternal damnation if they don't do whatever they say, to gain wealth, for example when they were selling the watchamacallits that were supposed to reduce people's time in purgatory.

I certainly don't think i'm more intelligent than anyone else qi, i just have had a different education in which i was taught to be cynical, tbh if i believed that there was even a slight possibility that i could suffer for eternity if i behaved badly i seriously would never behave badly xD. :)

Yes, I believe that a major reason people believe in god is due to a fear of death. God allows these people to not fear about death because they believe they will live for all eternity. This is the main reason people get more religious the older they get.
Also God is a no better way to explain the start of our Universe than the Big Bang Theory. Just like Christians ask what came before the Big Bang Theory, what came before god? Where did god come from? Are you expecting me to believe that he just decided one day to create the entire universe?
Also the burden of proof is on Christians to show whether god exists. We Atheists say nothing exists while they say something does exist. ( Also I feel that people are getting kind of angered talking about this, so lets try to have a peaceful discussion.) :)

TL, DR;

both christians and atheïsts have no proof that what they (don't) believe is the truth and the best arguments are about the effect of this (dis)belief upon morality.
(i also think that "being an atheist" basically just means "being" without having to add any kind of belief to it)

/discussion

still nobody answered my question, why did it have to be about christianity in the USA ?
(except naomi, but i don't think many people take those legal documents literally in regards to christianity, plus most countries have added words like "in god we trust" to various legal documents, and most of that has aged too much)

so why not talk about life-philofies in any(well, every) part of the world ?
(this is a rhetorical question btw)

i already said, i can prove that god does not exist
but first prove that unicorns don't exist

point being it is not possible to prove that something doesn't exist :)

now, give any single piece of evidence that he does please :p

As for the usa i don't know what the maker of the thread meant, but that's where it's the most radical i think, for example where i live in France if i recall correctly less than 10% of people practice their religion.
One example of this is the bs about not teaching evolution