I actually think Christianity is becoming more extreme, but in very small steps due to attrition of members that question churches. As I said, I left the Catholic church because I don't like their message on social issues. I know at least a dozen other people that basically don't go to catholic church anymore either for similar reasons. What that does is leave behind more people that are unwilling to question the church at all. Basically it makes the church less diverse. I don't think the Catholic church's message has become more extreme, in fact it is a lack of evolution that drives young people away.

This all has to be placed in context with where Christianity was in the middle ages in Europe. There are no Christian holy wars going on.

As for believing in god i have absolutely nothing against it, but i am strongly against the church because they've used their power, that people believe that they'll suffer eternal damnation if they don't do whatever they say, to gain wealth

That's why myhand meant when he said rulers find it useful, which I agree. But this has nothing to do with God, or the religion, but merely the organization (or church or whatever you want to call it) that chose to use this religion or God for their own purposes. That was probably one of the reasons for the protestant reformation. But then again, it didn't really get any better.

However, I'm sure there are genuine pastors/preachers/leaders out there that actually teach based on the bible, not based on their own opinions. You just have to find them.

"The ontological argument is sound" - Bertrand Russell

Tee hee hee.

(I memorised this one so I didn't have to Google it. Sorry it wasn't in the form of a jpeg.)

How patronising can you be Catbus? Could you be more?

Yes, but moderation is a virtue.

Christians ask what came before the Big Bang Theory

Two and a Half Men. We can all agree on this.

huhhh this argument has been going on, on warlight for at least three years nobody cares bruh

Hellbender does not care, so nobody cares. Simple solution for all of humanity's pproblems: when in need of an answer, seek the great oracle Hellbender.

I actually did read his books.

Oh you did, didn't you? I liked his lectures on logical atomism. Much easier to read and wrap my head around than the Tractatus, don't you think? That was my first 'serious' seminar I had at Uni. Aah, good times. I really hope you skipped PM though - it's obsolete, you know...

Wordsworth: I believe that you misinterpreted my comment. I stated that there was a wide variety of culture within the U.S. as a whole. I am not saying that there is any less culture outside of the U.S., simply that there is a wide diversity of languages, peoples and cultures. I was saying that I feel as though foreigners (from my perspective) tend to have one solid or at least something close to one solid impression of an American. I have a much easier time relating to someone from London than someone from Biloxi, Mississippi.

I believe Christianity has evolved. We used to kill non-believers now we just call them names. Unfortunatlly Islam has not evolved at a simular rate. How many Christian suicide bombers have you heard of. tagg! The protestant reformation made a huge difference:

* It broke the mononpoly of the Cathlic church* It said individuals could intrepret the bible for themselves and not rely of priests to do it

* Many scientists are believers in God because they do not see how the complexities of nature can be explained by random chance even given that there were billions of years of evolution.

*Most non-scientists are awed by nature. *Isolated groups of people throughout history have "worshiped nature" hence Neptune god of the seas ect. Gaia or Mother earth is the latested incarnation. * I myself feel closer to God when I am in nature

Are the best scientists believers? It would be interesting to see how many Nobel prize winners for either of the science categories are believers or athiests. Same for mathematicians?

Seriously are we now latching onto the beliefs of famous people,let us stop that we are better than this warlight for example:If most and best scientist believed that bacterias did not exist and it's all a scam to make money selling drugs does it make any more true or fact indeed.If most scientist and best scientist or mathematician were atheist it does not mean it's a fact.People can still go on and do great things and science despite their religion or lack of it,after all Charles Darwin was a pastor.And even if we are doing this warlight lets not bring Einstein into this since he was neither atheist nor theist.

^^ Actually, Einstein was a Jew, so he believed in Johavah God.

You took too many of the scam drugs.

Wow, 7 pages, too lazy to read through everything, will someone make a short summary of what has happened in this thread?

Gui remains unimpressed after listening to numerous logical and coherent arguments that God doesn't exist

Gui remains unimpressed after listening to numerous logical and coherent arguments that God doesn't exist

Several players of an online game that regard themselves as enlightened and perfectly rational beings choose to disregard any and all hints suggesting that they, too, are just mammals with big brains and thus cannot possibly be sure of anything their minds and senses come up with. They like to mock what they think are mere superstitions but they don't like to admit that their optimistic belief in homo sapiens as the perfectly capable creator of his own reality is just an equally big leap of faith. Their creed is that we'd be bound to succeed in our ongoing project of ushering in a transhuman scientistic utopia, if only all that pesky delusional rabble would finally see the light. The damn pope is holding us all back, yo.

See, I can do this too!

Ultimately we cannot yet fully prove that god does not exist in a way worthy of a scientific study, but we can make informed decisions that lean towards that idea.

...and qi thinks
(a) atheists believe in logic, reason, math and science
(b) atheists here are more anti-religion than anti-theism
(c) atheists can't prove 'god' doesn't exist: so anything they say is opinion/belief
(d) theists can't prove 'god' does exist: so anything they say is opinion/belief
(e) a fixed set of shared beliefs about the (non-)existence of god(s) = religion: so atheists are religious
(f) if atheists believe they have superior ideas due to their superior logic, reason, math and science, then offering biased and subjective youtube clips or parroting the quotes of dead people as a logically lazy substitute for one's own ideas does not prove your logic, reason, math and science is superior in any way
(g) why do atheists speak of dragons and unicorns when asked about the non-existence of 'god'? isn't there a more persuasive argument using math and science? or are atheists overemphasizing the importance of math and science in their and instead relying mainly on subjective reasoning couched in logical verbiage?
(h) I'm still waiting for an atheist to use logic, reason, math and science to defend atheism in a purely objective manner (ie, atheism should be more pro-reason than anti-organized religion) and without being lazy about it
(ie, no youtube nonsense or quotes pulled out of context)
(i) if (h) does not happen, i will continue to believe (1) atheists think too highly of themselves but are in fact no better thanttheists, since they both operate at the level of subjectivity, opinions and beliefs about religion without proof and (2) so it is better to be agnostic (to avoid thinking my limited subjective knowledge and experiences make me wise enough touunderstand that which no human is capable of fully understanding, given the current limitations of math and science)

(j) Western atheists who deny the influences of Christianity on Western culture are in a state of self-denial

(k) Qi recites his statements about atheist based on flawed logic and the same selfimportance he is insinuating the atheists over and over.