I wonder if there's going to be a member-only campaign?

those players a "before" score, or an honorary score, or a star or something on their profile even. I know it is meaningless, but at least acknowledge them or something.

Agreed. Myhand and Gui can go sulk about the lack of global ELO and independence and not needing badges all they like, I want my "was around before badges were a thing"-badge!

I don't see how a global ELO, while more interesting than levels/xp for sure, would provide this great new challenge that the demi-gods on level 4 are so ostentatiously lacking. That said, a proper on-site method to create custom league-systems would indeed be great.

Right, being able to edit forum posts would be nice, too. Go WL 2.0!!

ELO allows objective differentiation of players/SEEDS in leagues/tournaments/prereqs

Additionally ELO could lead to a reason to play when there are no other incentives to play. I know I'd play tigger more and arrange more games with gruff if I knew the games counted for something

Yeah it surely would be nice to have this little informative four-digit number right below my profile picture. Nicer (and much more useful) than a level/xp counter. No argument. I still don't get why it would make you play Tigger more, but yeah, bummer.

My guess for why we are getting levels instead: marketing (badges/levels/xp are the shit, the level 4 target group is marginal anyway, also: levels are meaningless, they measure activity, not skill, the counter can only go up, never down, which is most pleasant to look at) and probably some technical concerns as well (how to exactly implement it, what counts, what doesn't, how much, teamgames, FFAs... complex, not exactly easy to get it right - and: levels are meaningless, they measure activity, not skill, the counter can only go up, never down, so getting it right is less crucial).

Regardless of my opinion about whether WL 2.0 should have ELO or not, there is a practical problem with the idea.

A big part of WL, at least for me, is multiplayer (more than two people):

• As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), ELO only works properly for one-on-one matches, not for n player FFAs.
  
• Additionally, ELO doesn't work for team games (the ELO rating of a team is most certainly not the sum of the ELO ratings of the players in the team).
  
• Then there's the problem of the AI; is the AI going to get a rating? But (if I understand correctly) the AI is parametrised, so how would that work?
  
• And what rating does a player get who gets replaced by an AI halfway through a game?

Lastly, even if you could solve those issues in isolation; a player can take part in 1vs1s, FFAs, teamgames, any of those can contain (replacement by) AI players... Unless I'm really missing something, ELO doesn't get anywhere close to properly dealing with all those cases.

Sure, you could go with an ELO system which only takes into account games it can handle (1vs1, where no AI is involved at any stage), but that would open up an attack surface to game the system, as well as making it (in my opinion) largely meaningless, since it only measures a very restricted subset of games. (Note: everybody is of course entitled to think that subset is by far the most important skill set to measure; if you do, can we at least agree that is your opinion, not a cold hard fact?)


ps. Nice one Yeon! :)

teams could have ratings, would be a specific rating for a team (like ladder), players turn into ai = loss counted on ELO, practice games wouldnt count as elo, and booted player dont turn into ai = normal setting

#RvW Nobdy asked for a ELO rating on FFA. We aew just interesting on 1v1 - 2v2 - 3v3.

Gnuffone,

Except for the 2vs2 ladder, there are no fixed teams, so ELO for 2vs2 and 3vs3 still wouldn't work (there's far too many possible teams).

And the problem with "Booted players turn into AI" and "Surrendered players turn into AI" still stands. How do you propose to compute ELO if a booted (turned-AI) player wins a game?

either have that not as a possible setting, or make it a draw, because there is always the old Vote to end trick, that works if you are losing againt an ai

Just add some setting:
-booted player don't turn on AI, same for who surr.
-Like Fizzer do for 2v2 ladder, he could add a 3v3 ladder with fixed team. (if ELO rating like Gui say is too complex).
Are almost 2 years Fizzer promise to added a 3v3 League/Ladder, but i still don't see it :D
Also he could add some more ladder with different template.
And make one ladder for best player of WL, could really interesting.

Like you said the best part of an rpg is the expierence. Can we make an alt account and under bio put ALT ACCOUNT OF "real accounts name" to be able to expierence then put username as "real account2" i wanna see how the points value works from an ungrandfathered account

@ RvW: Elo can do all these things similarly to how the FFA seasonal ladder is going to do it, i.e. by counting it as a different win against every player on all other teams (possibly with a different weight).

@ Fizzer: will it be possible to hide your points and level, just like you can hide single-player stats etc? (I would certainly consider doing this myself.)

@ Whoever wants to read it:

I do agree that it would be nice to get something for the time before the point/level system, doesn't need to be much (the badge "I was here before the badges" seems fun, better even, get a "I had 1000 (ranked) games before WL2" badge (or 2000, 500, 200, whatever round number you had).)

Finally, if Qi becomes bored and doesn't want to play anymore without an ELO rating, please DO NOT EVER implement an ELO rating! ;-)

Gnuffone, if you want more ladders, why don't you create one yourself; that's exactly what CLOT is for!

---

Brad, having an alt is (in itself) not against the rules, see http://wiki.warlight.net/index.php/Rules:

You shall not operate more than one WarLight account in a way that gives you an advantage in a game, tournament or ladder.
(emphasis added)

Only using it in an unfair way (having your alt play on the opposite team in a 3vs3 for instance) is forbidden. So if you'd like to level an account from scratch, go ahead, have fun!

Clearly marking it as an alt and linking from your main to your alt account and the other way around is, strictly speaking, not required. However, it does seem like a good idea, even if it's just to prevent "misunderstandings" (that's exactly what I did for my own alt account http://warlight.net/Profile.aspx?p=5613318402).

---

Math Wolf, do you know those "(..) and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" jokes (http://ncse.com/files/images/ooze-front.jpg); how about an "I've been here since before WL 2.0 and all I got was this lousy badge"-badge? ;)

Use CLOT is too complex. Ps, that is very good programmer (look his site) abandon CLOT bc take too much time and is too complex...
Also, i already speak about it a ton of times, an offical ladder is more interesting then one ladder CLOT...

A quickly question.
Can i join ladder 1v1 with more then 1 account or is against rule?

Ask Fizzer to be sure, but as far as I can tell:
Sooner or later those accounts will have to fight each other. When that happens... you can't really play a fair game, so one account surrenders... giving the other account a free win and that's against the rules.

I have no idea whether or not it would be allowed to team up with yourself (use an alt) to compete on the 2vs2 ladder alone.

At least 4 ppl do to play 2v2 ladder with alt so i think is allowed.
And for 1v1, if the fight each other, you could just delay that match until you leave ladder, if this make solve the problem.

It is not allowed. As soon as Fizzer finds out, one of the accounts will be removed from the ladder. (It has happened before in the 2v2 ladder, I believe.)

I'm not sure, but I believe playing together with your own alt is not allowed either.

A lot of player play 2v2 with themself.
Jsa
Gui
Scorched Earth
and some more then i don't want say, bc they want keep secret.