@Roi Joleil

I did not forget about inflation. I even said "The problem itself you cannot fix unless you decrease the value of a single coin from 1cent to 0.001 cent at which point it obviously wouldnt be a reward anymore..."

To be fair, you put that as a conclusion, didn't included it while explaining the problem but yes, you actually included inflation, that's my mistake for ignoring that part.



The fact that only participation matters matters makes this whole exploit easier as you can just spam join games and (make a script to join and Surrender games)

I can just give a quick answer to your small question by saying "players who participated for 10 turn will get more points than players who participated for 1 turn and surrendered". But I knowingly didn't went into too much detail about this system since I had to put actual thought into it to provide every detail on how to do such a system.

I just explained that a successful level-up system can be created. I still stand by my initial claim. Since I'm not gonna bother making every single detail about how such a system can be created without any exploits, I'll just give you a real-life case instead, to show you its not as impossible as you claim.

Example (CS:GO): In CS:GO, people can either buy Prime account, or they level-up a free account 21 times to get Prime (so in this game, you will get coins with level-up and in that game, you get prime with level-up).

In CS:GO, you gain points by participation and not by winning (like my suggestion). Prime accounts have actualy real-life monetary value (like coins in this game) and yet, CS:GO's system was really successful. Please check it out if you wanna see a real-life example.

Warlight is a novel now.
It would need to be a different name.

I would like to support the already mentioned issue that Warzone is too full of different things.

Idle has nothing to do with classic and should be a separate game.

There are two main parts of idle, Clanwars and Arenas, where casual idlers are mixed with classic gamers. And this is always frustrating. Classic players complain that they dont get equal level matches in CW. Idle players complain that the classic players are OP in CW. Idle players are facing lvl 60+ players in Arena. You dont get much XP points from idle and XP also makes no sense for idle. So this situation is very confusing. And frustrating.

Single player has nothing to do with classic and should be a separate game.

The AI behavior is so different from what makes a good strategy against human players, that it better is removed from the classic. Otherwise, newbies coming from single-player will have wrong assumptions on how good they are. And be frustrated.

Even different classic game types could be more differentiated

There are diplo games. There are community levels. There are QM real-time games. And multi-day. And MTL and CL and whatnot. If this could be better filtered and made more visible - if it was just made a bit more elegantly represented - the game would be easier to digest.


Which of those parts make the money for fizzer? Anyone knows that? I would even assume it is idle with all the ad watches (for enabling the spin wheel and 4h AC boost) and lots of stuff which you can buy with coins (AP boosts, artifacts, cooldown reset, powers, etc). Or in other words, is that cross-selling from idle to classic needed for fizzer in some way?


Just my 3 cents...

Edited 3/27/2023 13:40:49

Idle players complain that the classic players are OP in CW.

Four words: Mixed players
(Though it is true idle only players might be annoyed about it, and classic tryhards get too easy games)

Single player has nothing to do with classic and should be a separate game.

The AI behavior is so different from what makes a good strategy against human players, that it better is removed from the classic. Otherwise, newbies coming from single-player will have wrong assumptions on how good they are. And be frustrated.

It's decent for newbs, but after that, its complete ****

Even different classic game types could be more differentiated

There are diplo games. There are community levels. There are QM real-time games. And multi-day. And MTL and CL and whatnot. If this could be better filtered and made more visible - if it was just made a bit more elegantly represented - the game would be easier to digest.

Yes please. And also, enforce the diplo rules. That could help more people join, so more profit for fizzer

Also

Which of those parts make the money for fizzer? Anyone knows that? I would even assume it is idle with all the ad watches and lots of stuff which you can buy with coins (AP boosts, artifacts, cooldown reset, powers, all the Ads you watch in idle for wheel and AC boost). Or in other words, is that cross-selling from idle to classic needed for fizzer in some way?

Good point. (VERY DUMB IDEA ALERT) What about watching ads during classic every ~10 turns? so that fizzer actually bothers with classic lol

Edited 3/27/2023 13:42:06

@vena

What do you do with the coin reward for the older players that haven't received the coin prizes? For example FC Bayern who is alreeady at level 68 and didn't get any coin reward for leveling up.

First a new level-up needs to be created. After its completed, we need to make a formula to convert old level-up system levels to new level-up system levels and automatically level players like FC Bayern accordingly (and of course provide them with every leve-up prize). This should be done (converting all current account to new level-up system) within a month after completing the new system I believe. If it takes too much time, Level-up conversion can only be done by demand at first.

Four words: Mixed players

That was 2 words

It's four if you count the two words "four words" which i included because funny

"(VERY DUMB IDEA ALERT) What about watching ads during classic every ~10 turns? so that fizzer actually bothers with classic lol"

The only thing Fizzer needs to do is to make coin wheel more frequent (like in every 8 hours). He won't need to create anything new, and he will immediately double the ad profit. Moreover, since he is not forcing anyone to watch ads, players themselves will probably appreciate it...

Edited 3/27/2023 13:50:14

@vera - thx for your summary and suggestions. I don't have specific ideas on many points you raise.

Key to me is still making game less frustrating / more enjoyable for both new entrants and "intermediate/casual/non-hardcore players". Make learning curve easier. For all game modes - PvP and single player. All measures along those lines would help to increase player base, engagement and overall happiness.

Re. "tutorials for each classic / qm template": I think it would be much better to provide "AI hints" in-game (ofc players should be able to switch it off whenever they want), rather than long written text tutorials. This is an online game, probably played mostly on mobile devices. And people generally don't read. But they will notice hint popups during game.

Top level player dashboard would also be very helpful. There could be one single app (delete idle app) with a selection tree on start page: "What would you like to play ...
1. Single Player level/s
2. Idle level/s
3. PvP real time match/es
4. PvP multi day match/es
then subbranches - eg. 4.1. - qm template, 4.2 commerce 4.3 4.2 custom template 4.4 diplo game ...

Players should be able to select whether they want last selection to open on next start of app or decision tree as default.

crossover between idle/classic = arena games: needs re-work. both templates and matching.

Edited 3/27/2023 14:03:38

"I can just give a quick answer to your small question by saying "players who participated for 10 turn will get more points than players who participated for 1 turn and surrendered". But I knowingly didn't went into too much detail about this system since I had to put actual thought into it to provide every detail on how to do such a system."

You can still just make a game - base income 0 - and make the script spam the "commit" button befor eventually surrendering.

Like this suggestion reaches levels where Fizzer simply wont do it due to the amount of work required to it. And that doesnt even include the problems to said system

He needs to create a new system where the XP you gain increases the longer you are in the game
He needs to unlock everything for new palyers
(which btw sucks for him as it makes the Strategy and Map Packs completly obsolete. idk how much money they make, bt definetly more than nothing with your proposed system)
He needs to add giving out coins when gaining a level
He needs to add an exponential system to the coins you gain per level
He needs to compensate current players with coins they would have gotten with the new system
Coins will inflate (and it will just get worse the longer your system exist as more and more free coins are being added from thin air which btw is terrible for an 'economy')
Then it will create tons of players who will obviously try to exploit the system in any way which fizzer has to now deal with.
1 thing would be to require email varification befor you can play.

So much work for a system that isnt even good and will make him less money (from strategy and map packs)

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"I just explained that a successful level-up system can be created. I still stand by my initial claim. Since I'm not gonna bother making every single detail about how such a system can be created without any exploits, I'll just give you a real-life case instead, to show you its not as impossible as you claim.

Example (CS:GO): In CS:GO, people can either buy Prime account, or they level-up a free account 21 times to get Prime (so in this game, you will get coins with level-up and in that game, you get prime with level-up).

In CS:GO, you gain points by participation and not by winning (like my suggestion). Prime accounts have actualy real-life monetary value (like coins in this game) and yet, CS:GO's system was really successful. Please check it out if you wanna see a real-life example. "

Yes, it worked so well they removed the "you can get prime by only leveling up"
They removed that like 1 or 2 years ago

How would Fizzer earn money from Warzone when the coins are much easier earned and stacked by all players? Because coins are the in-game currency to earn some kind of money for him. Through buying coins and some extras.

And in a way Warzone do not get more ads or that kind of thing

Edited 3/27/2023 14:35:17

It sound good for many players to earn many coins at once for being at a good level.

Making many e-mailaddresses isn't that hard for the e-mail verification tho

You can still just make a game - base income 0 - and make the script spam the "commit" button befor eventually surrendering.

Not if you base your calculations on actual time spent.

My proposal is not that of a big deal. You already said that "you can make 40 accounts under 5 minutes since no e-mail verification needed."

I get on average 5 coins daily through coin spin, if you make 1000 accounts (which should take 2 hours by your logic), you can get permanant membership in just 1 day.

My proposal doesn't have to be world's best level-up system, it just needs to keep new players without giving the game any harm. In the literal worse case scenario, we can reduce the coin prize so that you can get at most 5 coins per day and boom, its as effective as coin wheel while helping the game, keep players.

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So much work for a system that isnt even good and will make him less money (from strategy and map packs)

I've literally never heard anybody buying stuff like strategy pack but even if there are, it can't be a significant income for Fizzer. Plus, there is already an ongoing level-up system as you know, so it won't be as hard as you claim, while it will really help the game on new player participation.

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Yes, it worked so well they removed the "you can get prime by only leveling up". They removed that like 1 or 2 years ago

I just checked, yes you are right on this one, they are no longer doing that :P But they did it for years and Valve didn't stopped it because it was breaking the game. They simply reached their desired player numbers. Fizzer can stop this system anytime he wants too...

@vena

How would Fizzer earn money from Warzone when the coins are much easier earned and stacked by all players? Because coins are the in-game currency to earn some kind of money for him. Through buying coins and some extras.

I just responded to Roi Joleil with something similar, let me use a similar sentence for you;

"In the literal worse case scenario, we can reduce the coin prize (through level-up) so that you can get at most 5 coins per day and boom, its as effective as coin wheel, while helping the game, keep players."

This also suits to your opposition. This will make coin prizes limited. But still enough to encourage players to level-up (and participate more) but not enough to break the economy of the game.

Coins are cool, but you need ways how to spend them.

Edited 3/27/2023 14:53:11

Probably the only coin/ exp sink which could work would be clan upgrades.

The first problem that needs to be solved is how to hold players on this site. They are not very interested in coins in the first place. With good guides and tutorials it could work for them.

Next step is how to improve. There are many more experienced players who will help new players. Also through playing a lot people become better.

The reason I stayed on this site was that it's a nice site for playing Risk, but in a better way. Firstly a time at singleplayer and then moved to multiplayer. It's basically all about mostly nice people and fun games that people keep playing on this site. And for the better players the nice challenges to improve and staying at the top.

@vena, Yes. actually this level-up thing is not a priority in my initial suggestion (1st priority; "Stop Changing Player's Settings without their knowledge", 2nd priority; "Better Tutorials"...).

There were 7 suggestions about keeping the new players and level-up was only one of them. I'm mostly talking about level-up simply because Roi Joleil has so many questions about it.

Here is my original suggestions: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/682682?Offset=40

Edited 3/27/2023 15:02:08

"I just checked, yes you are right on this one, they are no longer doing that :P But they did it for years and Valve didn't stopped it because it was breaking the game. They simply reached their desired player numbers. Fizzer can stop this system anytime he wants too..."

no. just... no.
Their cheating problem was simply so massiv that they had to get rid of that feature.
Like there was an entire economy of selling prime status accounts to cheaters. (as they would sell the accounts for less than actual prime costs)
Obviously they still have (or had) massiv cheater problems after removing free prime its just now the money would atleast go to valve and not some 3rd actors.

"I've literally never heard anybody buying stuff like strategy pack but even if there are, it can't be a significant income for Fizzer. Plus, there is already an ongoing level-up system as you know, so it won't be as hard as you claim, while it will really help the game on new player participation."
When did i say 'hard'?
I said 'amount of work'
At the end of the day Fizzer develops this game alone. And for it to be worthwhile tochange an existing feature to something else must have a significant benefit to Fizzer / the game.
As such, your proposal does have to be significantly better than the current one.
And when part of the solution is to get rid of an income source for Fizzer i highly doubt he will be interested.
You not hearing of people buying these packs isnt suprising as you only know people who actually somewhat stuck to the game and got to a level where they unlocked the feature.. in other words ofc no one you know will buy packs that unlocks features they already have unlocked.
Ergo your knowledge of that is biased.
In the end tho only fizzers knows the numbers on that.

But all of that aside, and something i should have mentioned earlier.
How would coins in any way shape or form help new players stick to the game?
Like think about it.
How many players *MORE* would now stay because they saw they got 5 coins?
Like the only argument that can be made is that "it would help them see progress towards getting membership or some colour they like"
But how is that more attractive than the current system which works identical in that sense.
Both systems are just "oh look if you play more you unlock cool stuff"
just that your systme unlocks way less, removes the strategy and map packs and ruins the economy (or with your latest suggestion of capping it by 5 coins per day simply takes so long that they jst quit halfway through.)
Like you need to reward people in someway along the way to keep them grinding.
And going from 4.8% progress to 4.9% progress towards Membership just aint it.

So like i said in each post befor it. This suggestion simply aint it. And i frankly. Its not better but arguably worse. And there are definetly WAY betterways to help retain players than by rewarding them 5cent per day (without inflation accounted for)

"There were 7 suggestions about keeping the new players and level-up was only one of them. I'm mostly talking about level-up simply because Roi Joleil has so many questions about it."

Its not that i have so many questions.
Its more that to me that point stug out as an absolut "ahh hell no"
Other ideas might be better but i didnt bother thinking to much about them. Tho id imagine some will have their own massiv problems to them.
At the end im not a marketing or game dev expert tho so i wont bother.

-I Replied as my name was mentioned