In this slot https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=30&Timeslot=4591, 20 players joined Small Earth Commander and Bomb Card. 6 players from Prime joined, but two of these players didn't get a game!

Let's make an in-depth analysis then. There are 22 players in that template. Here are the number of players from each clans and the clan's CWR

704.2---Myth Busters---------(2 player)
633.9---Phyton----------------(1 player)
410.0---M'Hunters------------(3 player)
383.8---Mothership-----------(1 player)
365.4---The Blue Devils-------(2 player)
328.2---Italia Caput Mundi---(1 player)
320.5---Harmony-------------(1 player)
277.0---Polish Eagles---------(2 player)
223.2---Prime-----------------(6 player)
096.9---Le Furie Azzurre------(1 player)
041.9---Devil's Soldiers-------(1 player)
013.7---Cyrkon Alliance-------(1 player)

CW Matchmaking starts from highest CWR (704.2) and matches those players against players with next highest CWR (633.9). This means matchmaking should match players like this;

MB-1............>..........Python-1
MB-2............>..........MH-1
MH-2...........>..........MS-1
MH-3...........>.........TBD-1
TBD-2..........>..........Italy-1
HAR-1.........>..........PE-1
PE-2.............>..........Prime-1
Prime-2.......>.........Furry-1
Prime-3.......>.........DS-1
Prime-4.......>.........CA-1
Prime-5.......>.........[N/A]
Prime-6.......>.........[N/A]

As you can see, system is not broken. Fizzer can change the system so that matchmaking prioritizes giving everyone game instead of prioritizing CWR but I believe 5% of players, not getting game due to avoidable stacking is much better than 30-50% of players losing due to unfair matchmaking.

Prime tried to abuse matchmaking system to get easy wins by stacking on one template. They failed to get 2 games because of it. I call it fair, not broken.

Many examples like this.
https://www.warzone.com/Clans/War?ID=29&Timeslot=4511


One way to improve it, would be to randomize matchmaking, versus the existing top-down system. The first way is to randomly choose a clan from the stat list, then randomly choose a member. then, the second randomization is to match with either next higher, or next lower rated player, based on coin flip.

That way it's a distribution of the last odd man out, if there is one. Although clans that flood the template with 50% might not get all their games, so clans with that play style might object to this method based on that. Every pro has it's con you see...



TLDR: Randomize matchmaking by 1. In each template, for each slot, randomly pick a clan, and a member from that clan. 2. Match with next higher/lower rated CWR based on coin flip. 3. Profit.

@Doktor K

TLDR:

▶ What? My whole talk about how matchmaking works, commentary about effectiveness of current matchmaking system and conclusion of Prime's situation together was shorter than your comment. How did you manage to find it long?

relax VV, he's TLDR'ing his own msg from 2 paragraphs to 2 sentences

My own TLDR of this whole thread:
- CW prioritizes giving matches to strongest clans
- Fizz thinks this is good, so does VV
- the rest of us disagree with both of you

@krinid

he's TLDR'ing his own msg

▶ Interesting, didn't know people can say "TLDR" to their own messages.

CW prioritizes giving matches to strongest clans

▶ CW prioritizes giving matches to clans with similar performance for fairness. Its just does that starting from top to bottom.

Fizz thinks this is good, so does VV

▶ Thinking only 2 people supports current matchmaking is not realistic but as long as I don't hear a better suggestion, I'll stick with the current one.

the rest of us disagree with both of you

▶ Rest disagree between themselves on best matchmaking, thousand different people, thousand different idea... So its not like "some vs rest", its more like "some vs some vs some..."

PS: Yeeey, MH is dominating this forum :P

@Vervari

Prime tried to abuse matchmaking system

I admire Prime for their success, and for their terrific run. They managed to keep enough in the W column to finish second for Six seasons in a row, so far. And did it without free wins, and, did it despite getting turned down for games, as described above. Hats off to them.

i agree with krinid here

@Doctor K

I admire Prime for their success, and for their terrific run

▶ Yes, but I don't see how this is relevant to the subject (effectiveness of CW matchmaking).

▶ Let me take us back to the subject; I believe matchmaking is fine. The problem is with CWR. It should start focusing on clan rankings. Or we can talk about the real broken matchmaking... QM matchmaking

Let's examine a common occurrence, that is, MB is the big gorilla in the slot. So look at the same example with following changes:

704.2---Myth Busters---------(6 player)
223.2---Prime-----------------(2 player)

Then the analysis would follow as

MB-1............>..........Python-1
MB-2............>..........MH-1
MB-3............>..........MH-2.
MB-4............>..........MH-3
MB-5............>..........MO-1 (704 vs 383)
MB-6............>..........BD-1 (704 vs 365)
...
DS-1.............>..........CA-1

and everyone got games (11 games). But MB was able to stack up against much weaker opposition.
So the system is not matching CWR very well in these cases. Fizzer said he cares about that. He want's to minimize the CWR delta where that is possible. He may be open to looking at this issue.

Edited 4/14/2023 20:16:00

@veravari you were saying about unfair matchmaking? "players losing due to unfair matchmaking"
What about the cases where top clans match up with much weaker ones, is that fair or unfair?

@Doctor K

What about the cases where top clans match up with much weaker ones, is that fair or unfair?

▶ If best players match with much worse players, that's unfair and current matchmaking prioritizes on avoiding that.

@VERAVARI

▶ If best players match with much worse players, that's unfair and current matchmaking prioritizes on avoiding that.

False, players from a top clan can still get matches with very weak players, if multiple players from that top clan join one template. Just look at Doctor K's example (3 messages above).

Edited 4/14/2023 20:41:52

Since CWR is a clan based rating, it makes no sense to talk about top/strong/weak/etc players in the context of matchmaking. It's strong/weak clans

And yes high CWR vs low CWR matches happen, but the algorithm prioritizes (not prevents/eliminates/eradicates) high CWR vs high CWR; obviously when there's a lack of high vs high CWR available, you get next best

@Maths Empire

False, players from a top clan can still get matches with very weak players

▶ Your false is false :) Just because best players don't always plays against best players, it doesn't mean CW doesn't prioritize best players against each other. Unfortunately unfair matches happen with this system but only Doktor K talked about a solution and his solution was to randomize matchmaking which would escalate this problem further

Since CWR is a clan based rating, it makes no sense to talk about top/strong/weak/etc players in the context of matchmaking. It's strong/weak clans

Right, mb, I meant weak clans ofc.

▶ Your false is false :) Just because best players don't always plays against best players, it doesn't mean CW doesn't prioritize best players against each other. Unfortunately unfair matches happen with this system but only Doktor K talked about a solution and his solution was to randomize matchmaking which would escalate this problem further

I mean, yes, the current system works good, unless some clan decides to abuse it by stacking on one template. Doctor K's solution wasn't actually full randomization - the algorithm would still take CWR into account. With his system, clans stacking on one template would get easy games much rarer than now.

Edited 4/14/2023 21:02:07

Would really bring back καλλιστηι's suggestion of a detailed algorithm from one of him previous topics:
https://www.warzone.com/Forum/667315-clan-wars-fixed-already

In my opinion, this is the greatest solution so far:
- It changes the matchmaking only when there is an avoidable risk not getting games
- seems to be "easily" implementable with immediate benefits for CW players
- it does increase the CWR deltas of some games, but it does so mainly by matching the lower CWR clan (which would otherwise get no games) against the top clan. And getting such a game for a lower CWR clan is still better and less frustrating, than getting no game at all.

- it does increase the CWR deltas of some games, but it does so mainly by matching the lower CWR clan (which would otherwise get no games) against the top clan. And getting such a game for a lower CWR clan is still better and less frustrating, than getting no game at all.

Not the top clan. It essentially breaks the lowest-rated game without a player from the lowest-rated clan and matches both players to players from the lowest-ranked clan. For even # of players, it minimizes the delta while giving all players a game.

Edited 4/15/2023 01:30:22