Surprised SE isn't here with the quality of these templates now. Maybe next season we'll have Siege 1v1.

Crimea Army Cap is a good template. It is also very different from what people are used to, so I applaud the decision to include it. After all, we get to play army cap in CL approximately once every century. If you don’t think army cap is strategic, you just don’t understand how to play it.

I don't think Crimea army cap is the problem. Georgia army cap isn't the greatest template (it's also far from the worst), but its issues are the number of cards and number of available picks. The army cap setting is not to blame. The other major AC template is bork which is it's own brand of insanity combining AC with MA and should not be considered representative of the AC mechanic.

LD MA and fogless fighting are the ones that raise ??? for me. I have my doubts about fogless' quality, but beyond that think having a no fog template in CL is asking for trouble. As for LD MA, multi attack templates by nature tend to be read heavy (not as strategic) and LD templates are slow. It's not uncommon for games in CW to go 20+ turns.

Overall I think the slate much like the NC slate leaned too hard into "let's play different templates." I see very little reason to play Aseridith in CL over Biomes or EA. The templates that get played over and over again are played because they're great templates.

Grateful to the organizers and don't want to be too negative. But like many I was taken aback by the template slate.

LET'S GO HAWKS!!!

Edited 10/14/2023 17:38:36

I think the templates are fine. One thing that’s lacking is a Brawl template. But still, so much whinging! If you don’t have people in your clan who like these templates, maybe you lack diversity?

Thanks selection team!

>when Texx insinuates the reigning CL champs lack depth when questioning the strategic quality of a no fog template

Nice template selection, LF!
Spice it up, and ignore the haters! Looking forward to it!

Kenny, you want me to do your job for you? The guys in Masters who like Fogless are ADHD and Min. ADHD also likes Aseridith. Wait, now that I think about it… ADHD is the Alexclusive of Masters.

Edited 10/14/2023 21:34:45

Except less… “special”.

Whether we have players that can play and 6-0 the template has nothing to do with the template being strategic or not.

No fog just isn't strategic, it also has a lot of rule complications.



Any person commenting on the game has full information of the game, therefore any comments about fogless games is considered advice to either player in the game.

It's also a bad template that just isn't strategic and has no right to be in a competitive league that plays for a long period of time.

I am really surprised, that the suggestion of duel lotto template was ignored.
Is it because of the fog settings? If yes, then make it full fog or fogless (whatever the strategic community prefer).

I'm just a noob, but why is Fogless Fight considered a non strategic template?

For the record I support new templates being implemented in CL and think LF is a great organizer.

No fog means that both players have full information. Let's say it's WR like this template and you miss out on completing a bonus. In a game where there is fog you would have to assume your opponent finished it, or guess that they failed it. The point being that information is a huge factor in strategic play. You use your missed picks to gain information on picks your opponent has. Even in light fog, where it takes pick intel away, at least it does not give players both full information. On top of being a full information scenario it's not a small map/not enough picks are given to both players to make it a straight up brawl like French Brawl, so it's actually a map/template that's better played with fog than without which is also quite funny.

I respectfully disagree on the "full information" argument. Chess is regarded as a very strategic game and you can look at the full board getting full information, that doesn't make it less strategic.
I guess it comes down to everyone's own definition of "strategic" in the context of warzone. For me "strategic" means that strategy is the main factor that determinate the winner, the player with the best strategy should almost always win and luck usually plays a very little role. I think that Fogless Fight fulfill my definition so I would argue that it is a "strategic" template.

This game is not at all chess. You do not have pieces that have the same exact actions being played with the same initial placement but mirrored. Full information of this game devalues the pick phase, devalues counters, and devalues expansion, which are some of the core of the gameplay.

Yes, if this game WERE chess then full information is fine. This game IS NOT chess.

Also, the player with the best strategy does not win all of the times in this template since it is WR meaning that calculated attacks can fail based on chance. Luck plays a big role, and you remove a lot of the strategic elements from the game --> the template is more of a lottery.

Edited 10/14/2023 23:52:22

Loving the template choices :)

People will always complain when the templates aren't the three ladder templates + Biomes 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3...

Also I put a fair bit of time into creating and play testing 2v2 Crimea Army Cap - testing with different distribution configurations and Card combinations and then tested it all out with some of the best army cap players on the game. If anyone thinks it's not strategic then please allow me and Tornado to beat you repeatedly on it until you change your mind ;)

Of course it is not chess, I just wanted to make the point that a game where you have full information about the board is not necessarily a "non strategic game".

I don't think no fog devalues pick phase or expansion.
It definitely makes counters useless but that is just a tweak to the game that arguably can add more fun. Isn't one of the points of CL to make players confront in many different gameplay?

On the WR argument, then the old ladder template is "non strategic"?
Also note I said almost always and usually when talking about luck.

Edited 10/15/2023 00:04:01

(People might have a good point about people commenting and offering help on fogless fighting though - might be a recipe for controversy no matter how good a template it is :) )

I see this point and understand it, but realisticly you could do almost the same with light fog.
Also there are countless ways of cheating in anything in life. I think the best approach is to presume people will not cheat and punish harshly the ones that we have proof cheated.

Fogless is weird. Emergency blockades promote passivity, no fog makes counters less effective. But all that does is *change* the way you play. It may ruin mechanics and strategies that you used to use, but that doesn’t make it less strategic, it creates different boundaries that you have to play within. Now, instead of picking like a scaredy cat, you can pick like a boldy cat, knowing you’ll see counters. It’s simply a *different* way of picking, not a less strategic way.