> otherwise it's a slippery slope straight to us becoming another clusterfuck clan of fuckwits like FCC

At least Quick's not toxic ;)

It's very unfortunate if the clan creator is toxic, because then they can claim back and dominate the clan against any majority if that is what they want. As you are fewer than 40, I recommend you to create a new clan, called something like "Real Python", and get rid of me. It's been a pleasure, guys! :')

> At least Quick's not toxic

ty nauz - with compliments like that i think you're now nice enough to join Python, just let us know

> otherwise it's a slippery slope straight to us becoming another clusterfuck clan of fuckwits like FCC

i want to apologise for this, sorry to everyone in FCC. it's been brought to my attention that i was bang out of order: it should have been "... Fuckwits Clusterfuck of a Clan like FCC". my bad

What Quick intended to say is that ultimately it's the council's decision and he got 50 hits with a belt for suggesting otherwise as a punishment from Fal

FCC = Fuckwits Clusterfuck of a Clan

Python = Pathetic yummy targets habitually only non-joiners

ONE = Obese nerds everywhere

Masters = Madmen arbitrarily screaming to erratically ranting sadists

Well, this discussion downgraded pretty rapidly.

But after reading comments from former FCC members I learned that it's absolutely fine, because Corn Man and alexclusive are the core of Python and regardless of what anyone thinks of them as as people, they are an instrumental piece in seeing their clan grow. And let's not forget that the people who in your head you probably think are toxic, are likely just too exciting for you, because you like to take everything too seriously.

Anyway, I have rakleader winning the series 6-3. Good luck guys!

Damn y'all killed this thread. Anyway, while I agree that players retiring was a problem, Xeno overstates its significance. I didn't get to that in my original synopsis of the situation but I was intending to bring that up. Of the list of players he brought up:

(ralph, checkmqte, mgo, papamarsh, ocean, skekung, neighbor, ursus, legolas, asurados and octane)

Only Ralph, CM, PapaMarsh, and Neighbor were CL14 players that retired after that season. Octane and Asurados played CL15 and Octane also ended up playing CL16 anyway. (Asurados is also still active.) Losing Ursus was an early blow to the CL15 season but not an insurmountable one. The merger with TSFH brought in Yelo and AC who played for FCC and players like UsualSuspect and Skek that played for Disco. The inactivity argument is simply an excuse and while it might have presented problems for us to field two separate rosters in the long term if we didn't recruit, we certainly had more than enough for one CL roster. At worst, we would have had to play guys like Usual or Skek in div A but they wouldn't have been out of their depth. (One certainly would have been more at ease doing that than 2-slotting me in A for CL13 haha.) In CL, we got complacent and lacked motivation. That was partially my fault as well. I was one of the biggest culprits.

All in all, inactive players wasn't the reason for the defection to Blitz. The more obvious reason Xeno inadvertently stated in his own summary - that he didn't want to lead anymore. But I think this is a retroactive thought. He didn't want to relinquish his power immediately prior to the defection to Blitz. There was literally a vote amongst the admins for a successor. He could have given that role to Kaylleb or shared it amongst various admins while he took a hands-off role - but he didn't. So that reason is BS anyway. And it's extremely selfish to think that the decision to defect is in any way vindicated by the fact that he just couldn't be bothered anymore. But Xeno being selfish and thinking only about himself is nothing new anyway...

Edited 11/13/2023 02:21:13

BEGINNING OF LONG STORY

Now, I am not actually too disappointed by Xeno's "version of events". It's not as blatantly twisted as I expected it to be. Most of it is not accurate. But it is not the gross distortion I have seen from him or his cronies in the past. I myself did indeed distort events as well when I recounted them previously in the heat of the moment (see somewhere in the old message history in the CL server). But that time is past us. So allow me to explain what happened as I saw it, with a much clearer conscience. By the way, for those that think I could not have been completely aware of what happened because I wasn't the one running the server. No, that is not the case. Everything was detailed on discord and as an admin at that point I had access to all the channels. The only dragons in this story from my perspective is that I don't know what was going on in the other admins' heads.

So without further ado... the name change drama.

The name change drama was a flash point; a microcosm of everything wrong with the clan. But while it ushered in the implosion of the clan, as I said earlier the cracks were already beginning to show. To think the actions of any individual regarding the name change is what killed the clan is ridiculous. It was the position historically purported by Xeno and his cronies and I am glad to see that reason has finally taken over in this particular case.

Essentially, what happened was I had the bright idea to make a new clan, because I always hated the name FCC.

So the idea for a name change had been lingering for a while. I am not sure who exactly first proposed it, but it was indeed likely Xeno as he stated here, given that he and Irise were the earliest vocal supporters of a name change. I have poor recollection of timeline here but at some point (perhaps before CL14), there was a vote as to whether or not FCC should change its name amongst the admins. It was rejected.

Now, normally, the timeline here should fast forward to around CL15 where the name change idea was brought up again. But there is a notable event regarding this name change shenanigans that occurred in the interim. Despite the vote by the admins to reject any potential name change, Xeno went ahead and created a new clan anyway. It was called Notorious. Now, this in and of itself is not a problem at all. Nothing wrong with creating a personal clan to house one of your many alts. But he then went on and declared Notorious to be an honorary "sister clan" of FCC and Disco, in a sudden move of egotistical tendency, thus disregarding the principles behind the rejection of the vote for a name change. While this clan ended up housing not much more than Xeno and IRise's alts, its existence made their intention very clear...

Fast forward finally to around CL15. I am the one resuscitating this idea of a name change for FCC. I, personally, deemed it reasonable to bring it up again given that the clan identity was a bit different now, coming off the merge with TSFH. This time, especially given the influx of new members, there was heavy popular support for a name change. The vote was easily passed by the admins at this point and went over to the members who also voted heavily in favor of a change. Now, the obvious question of what to name this clan and what icon to give it became the next set of inquiries... and it would ultimately open up a can of worms.

Edited 11/13/2023 04:18:20

I, personally, advocated for a name for the new clan that would go along with Discovery. In fact, the growing notion, championed in fact by Xeno was that rather than Disco and FCC being sister-clans, Discovery was in fact really the parent clan. FCC would be the clan to feature in CL A and nothing else - being a CL only clan for the members who had sought and earned the chance to compete there from Discovery. Over time, the idea was that in the CL offseason, everyone would be in Discovery and the CL tryouts would determine who would move to FCC to play in CL A. This idea, I thought, was simply brilliant. A far cry from Python's elitism that ended up with two "sister-clans" with enough animosity towards each other that they would choose to face each other in the same division. In this more meritocratic and fairer model, if Discovery promoted to A it would simply decline promotion and play the following season in B to give the chance for newer players to develop. While Xeno championed this idea, I don't think IRise was too fond of it (a rare case here) - but I fully backed it.

It was in light of these new principles that I convinced the most hard-working admin of the time, Kaylleb, to create potential clan icons for the new clan. Some of the most striking ones featured the discovery compass with a diagonal across the middle - a nod to FCC's famous logo while more strongly emphasizing the relationship with Discovery. It also in light of these principles that I proposed a new name for the clan: Odyssey. Discovery and Odyssey... the potential was obvious - at least to me. I had proposed other ones, and so had others. But they are not as relevant to this story. Skek, an admin acquired from the merge with TSFH, immediately saw the potential too. A few other members did as well. When the voting of the names actually began, it was easily far ahead in the votes. There were at least 10-15 names proposed, so it wasn't going to get the over 50% majority. But it was the most popular name by a longshot. But all of a sudden, out of the blue Xeno and IRise suddenly opposed a name change. Curious.

This setback could have been taken in stride but drama was brewing. Faler had already thrown in an ultimatum, having been contemptuous of the idea of a name change from the start. He would leave the clan, and take his scripts with him, if the we ever decided to change the name of FCC. His stance was initially very bizarre to me. Why this obsession with the name FCC, if he wasn't even in the clan? Did he not understand the idea of FCC as an only-CL clan? Discovery, for better or for worse, was the main clan. This had been a reality we had been living in for a while. Faler's pretensions of the importance of FCC were obsolete. Reason didn't work, so I tried appeasement. "We already won CL as FCC - that won't be changed", I said. To no avail. Tensions flared, but Faler's stance remained resolute. Ultimately, I resigned myself to a move that I would regret. I threw in my own counter-ultimatum that I would boot my CL games if we didn't proceed with a name change. Now, the misconception here is that I was abusing my power to get my way. And yes, this was a clear abuse of power from me. But I was abusing my power to provoke the admins to go along with the vote, not with my own will. Had Faler's stance been the common view of the members of the clan, I would have never thought to abuse my power in such a manner to try and force a name change. We would have voted against the name change again and went on our way - until another merger happened perhaps. (Not a justification - just a clarification.)

At any rate, this battle of egos and abuse of power doom-spiraled the situation among the admins. But out of all the egos present here, none was bigger than Xeno's. You see, it is perfectly clear why his opinion on the name change mysteriously switched after the name proposals were voted on. Notorious was to be the only possible new name for the clan, in Xeno's eyes and possibly IRise's as well. Notorious, having been described by PapaMarsh as a name an "edgy 14-year old" would think up, was pretty much scoffed by the rest of the admins. Xeno had already gotten his way a previous time with clan names. (He came up with the name "Discovery" and convinced Aura to go along.) But this time wasn't to be. And came up with a bunch of excuses as to why we could not proceed with the outcomes of the vote. But at the back of his mind, he was already plotting an escape route. The apparent divisions between my stance and Faler's were irreparable, in his eyes. And his failure to convince the clan to use Notorious meant that he would instead opt with his plan B. FCC was now a dead man walking. He had always been fond of Blitz. Now just to convince the rest of the admins and members...

END (of my retelling of events at least)

Edited 11/13/2023 04:22:14

Only Ralph, CM, PapaMarsh, and Neighbor were CL14 players that retired after that season. Octane and Asurados played CL15 and Octane also ended up playing CL16 anyway. (Asurados is also still active.)

Everyone I mentioned had either retired or stated an intent to retire prior to the Blitz merge, only two players from the FCC CL14 and CL15 lineups competed in CL16 (irise and octane who subbed in midseason). Discovery only had 4 players from CL15 participate in CL16. You mentioned Usualsuspect, but he actually left Discovery the second he finished his CL15 games. Asurados is active in the sense that he still plays diplos.

In the end we discussed two options, you weren't privy to these conversations as we had agreed to remove you. Option 1: Consolidate all players into one clan and remove you and faler. This didn't happen because 3 of the 5 admins (kaylleb skek aura) had indicated that they didn't see themselves playing WZ for much longer, and they were all inactive within a month of the merge. Moreover, after privately messaging about 20 members of our strategic core, I had doubts that we could field even one lineup. Option 2: Merge with another clan. 4/5 admins voted for this idea, the other wanted to merge with a different clan, in the end we just did this because we felt we needed to replenish our playerbase and this was the easiest way to accomplish this.

By the way, for those that think I could not have been completely aware of what happened because I wasn't the one running the server. No, that is not the case. Everything was detailed on discord and as an admin at that point I had access to all the channels.

You weren't completely aware of everything that happened, Aura, Octane, Irise and myself sometimes used private chats to discuss clan management. Furthermore, when the name change situation came to a head we created a private group chat to discuss the future of the clan. As you will no doubt recall, you were completely blindsided by the Blitz merge.

Despite the vote by the admins to reject any potential name change, Xeno went ahead and created a new clan anyway. It was called Notorious. Now, this in and of itself is not a problem at all. Nothing wrong with creating a personal clan to house one of your many alts.

This is wrong, I bought the clan before I even broached the idea of a name change. When the other admins said they didn't like the name I dropped the idea

https://gyazo.com/50ef62f2709adbd687395acb97687cbf

But he then went on and declared Notorious to be an honorary "sister clan" of FCC and Disco, in a sudden move of egotistical tendency, thus disregarding the principles behind the rejection of the vote for a name change. While this clan ended up house not much more than Xeno and IRise's alts, its existence made their intention very clear...

https://gyazo.com/c9c012f2dbc02943355f4b747fa5a48f

Irise actually had the idea to use an open clan to attract new players, we would then redirect them to discovery if they showed interest in joining. The idea had unanimous support from the admins, ultimately it never helped us in our recruiting efforts and it was abandoned soon after.

As far as that last post goes, you're just speculating as to what my intentions were, and I can assure you that you're wrong. We didn't go forward with the name change because circumstances had changed, mass retirements and infighting between admins will do that. As to why you've decided to air all this dirty laundry, I can only assume that you're still angry, in which case I would say what's the point, it's just a game. We talked about burying the hatchet a couple of days after the Blitz merge. You declined and we've thrown a few shots at each other since. I don't really care anymore, and the offer still stands.

Edited 11/13/2023 05:03:19

xeno big bully, still removes me from blitz discord because i left FCC 10 years ago :(

As to why you've decided to air all this dirty laundry

This was a request from the audience (namely, me) to cover that part of the story, too.
So far this genuinely was a very interesting read.

We talked about burying the hatchet a couple of days after the Blitz merge.

This never happened? Anyway, the point of this story was to clarify the story from my point of view. And yes, the last portion was somewhat speculative. I don't at all care what happened. I was planning on quitting the game before the events that transpired occurred anyway.

This never happened?

Here is the end of that conversation, where I agreed to allow you to stay on the server. You left after a day, did a 180 and started taking shots at me.

And yes, the last portion was somewhat speculative.

Yeah, some parts speculative, other parts made up. For instance, I never opposed the name change. Faler leveraged the fact that he organised the p/r league and hosted all our scripts, to oppose it. We had to consider whether losing the p/r league and some of the bots was worth a name change, so we postponed the decision until after CL15. You were actually part of these conversations, we had a group chat to discuss the faler ultimatum.



When you threatened to boot all your ongoing CL games, I removed you from this group. From that point on you were excluded from all discussions regarding the clans future. This is why you can only speculate on what happened.

I don't at all care what happened

If you didn't care you wouldn't have aired out all the details on a public forum, and you wouldn't have tried to portray me as a supervillian. For instance, "Xeno's cronies", like come off it, who you're actually referring to here is just the other 4 admins who agreed that we should sever ties with you and Faler.

Yeah, tell us more about who those cronies are.
I heard people say Xeno has a dog but that's the first time I am hearing about him having cronies.

If you didn't care you wouldn't have aired out all the details on a public forum
First you say what I said was speculative or wrong. And then you complain about me airing all the details. Pick one. I pretty clearly indicated which parts of the story were speculative. If you are truly over this, you wouldn't care about me talking about this. This happened over a year ago. Why do you still care? I haven't given a flying fuck about you talking about my role in this in the CL server or whereever else without my presence.

I never opposed the name change.
Yeah I just don't think you're being truthful here. And I am fairly sure there exists evidence to support this but I don't have the receipts anymore.

The fact that you're going out of your way to show isolated screenshots in private DMs seems to indicate you still deeply care about proving whatever point you are trying to prove. I'm done talking in this thread. I've said my piece. You can cover the parts that I didn't touch on with your private DMs with the other admins if you like but there is nothing for me to add here. This thread is a waste of my time.

Edited 11/13/2023 20:22:12

Good job adding some content to Fivesmith!

Breakups sometimes hurt!

Now kiss and make up!

Edited 11/13/2023 20:58:50