TheOnlyPie: If you look at the version of the map on the original post, you'll see those bonuses are now there in the top-left

Bart: Sorry, but the last test game has already begun; you won't be able to join any test games now.

Edited 3/20/2015 00:12:10

Russia has no history of old ages, just because it has never been a country before becoming independent from Mongols, just a band of people, many people.Poles,Ukrainians,Belorussians aren't native people of those lands, maybe they killed all aborigines there at the time of Slav invasion, so arguing about those lands is incorrect, simply because none of current peoples can claim that.

So who were before Russians and Slaves? Caucasians?

Those lands where slightly inhabited, the valley people were living there, one day the moved to west and south.

Anyway, it's a fact that Slavs are one of the barbarian tribes who migrated to their current lands after Hun invasion.

BTW The whole middle east where inhabited by the same people once, but because of barbarians invasions(that are unknown for you because the haven't reached Europe) most peoples were destroyed and currently only a few countries can claim to be descendants of those native middle-Easterners, the ones who were stronger and the ones who lived in mountains, so here in Caucasus only Georgians and a couple of northern Caucasians are considered native people, so putting us, Caucasians in the same bowl is not right.

And also, unlike Russians and other guys like them,we don't want the territory that aren't ours.Even the times when we were strong, maybe stronger than England and France, we hadn't conquered everybody.

Edited 3/20/2015 12:53:01

Anyway, it's a fact that Slavs are one of the barbarian tribes who migrated to their current lands after Hun invasion.

BTW The whole middle east where inhabited by the same people once, but because of barbarians invasions(that are unknown for you because the haven't reached Europe)

Lionheart I understand it, but you seem to not know the European prehistoric "history" either, Europe too was inhabited by old Europeans once before Indoeuropean barbarians came there.

Indoeuropeans (who would become Celts, Germans, Latins, Slavs, Iranians etc) were invaders as well and conquered old europeans' land starting some 4000 years ago, actually 2 families of people composed those old europeans:

-Finno-Uralic people: nowadays Finns, Sami, Hungarians etc who inhabited all the NOrth and East of Europe.

-Vasconic people (known as Solutreans/Clovis culture who built megalithic monuments such as Stonehenge or Carnac) nowadays Basques being their heir, who inhabited the Western part from Scotland to Sicily.

Thus, it is not false to say that Basques and Finno-Ugrians are the real aboriginals of Europe.

Two old European big families


Indo European Invasion


Edited 3/20/2015 16:10:07

I don't know much about what you wrote because Europe has no history before Greeks, but I surely know that Slavs are in the list of the barbarian tribes that invaded Europe at the end of Western Roman Empire because of Huns, forcing them to move west.

Edited 3/20/2015 13:46:00

That's why this period is called "pre"history, because those people did not kept any written records.
However before Greeks ever started to exist Europe was inhabited by those civilizations I explained you before, and despite the fact that there is no "written history", we know that because of archeological discoveries (megaliths, caves), genetics (western europeans share many similiar genes, for example Iberians and Irish are actually genetically very similar), linguistics (toponimical researches), and anthropology (old europeans were a matriarchal society venerating an Earth goddess, Basque and Saami myths through oral traditions keep these tracks).
Consequently the fact that there is no written history does not mean that there is no History at all.

Edited 3/20/2015 15:45:11

Keep in mind, Lionheart thinks that China has never won a war...ever, in over 4000 years.

It shocked him when I showed him one.

Also, look up Kievan Rus', and Galicia-Volyn Principality.

Also, I hear the same argument everywhere from weak countries:

And also, unlike Russians and other guys like them,we don't want the territory that aren't ours.Even the times when we were strong, maybe stronger than England and France, we hadn't conquered everybody.

Never stronger than England or France, even in the golden 1100s. The only reason Georgia did not expand was because most of the time, it was too busy fighting itself, and when it wasn't, it was too weak to do anything else.

Edited 3/20/2015 16:53:46

Keep in mind, Lionheart thinks that China has never won a war...ever, in over 4000 years.

total bullshit

Edited 3/20/2015 17:03:28

Poles stole them, being opportunistic after the Mongol invasion. Russians just were getting them back.

They took it from the Kievan Rus, yes, but it's more Ukraine than Russia (Kiev... is the capital of Ukraine)

Also, if we are playing that way, I could say Poland should control Germany all the way to the Elbe river because they did control that area. What I m saying is that this part of Lithuania-Ukraine-Belarus was Polish for a long time and it was considered like naturally Polish land, so it should use Polish names. Just saying.

They took it from the Kievan Rus, yes, but it's more Ukraine than Russia

There was no Russia, no Ukraine, just Rus. Equally belonging to Ukraine, Belarus and Russia.

When did Poland reach the Elbe? I think they had helter-skelter control of west Pomerania at one point, and that's it.

What I m saying is that this part of Lithuania-Ukraine-Belarus was Polish for a long time and it was considered like naturally Polish land, so it should use Polish names

We are going to use Lithuanian names for Lithuanian kingdom and Polish names for Polish kingdoms, don't worry.

Also, Germany controlled Slask, Pomerelia for a very long time. Should they consider it German?

Well, when I said China has never won I was joking.Just it's a funny fact, the mighty Chinese were always losers in famous wars.

What about Georgia we used to be strong, Only in 3 battles we had defeated over million Turks at the time when Crusaders of all europe had maybe killed 200k or so.For 120 years(12th-13th century) we won 16 big battles(including more than 10k men) and lost none.Our army was 150k and population 8-9 million when fate of England was decided in a battle 6k vs 6k.

These facts might be a bit unbelievable, but there written by turk historians more than by georgians.And those times, when europe had dark ages, east was 100 times more developed in all stuff, so this numbers aren't really vague for those ages.

Not to forget about Russians, they had just things like counries, merchant unions like Hansa, but they weren't real countries at least because they were inviting others, such as vikings to rule them.So, I don't consider russia serious before michael romanov became a king.

Edited 3/22/2015 08:54:54

The east was more developed, yes, but that was due to the large amount of major rivers in the region mixed with warm climates. These regions had practiced agriculture for longer and were able to sustain much larger populations. But if you look at which regions were more stable, it's Europe. For example, England was created in 927 CE, and the English Kingdoms go as far back as the 500s CE, but if you look at the great Islamic empires of the Middle East and Africa, most only last for 100 or 200 years before falling into chaos.

8=✊D

East was more developed mostly because we had no Barbarian invasions at that time...

The map's pending public now guys, thanks for all your help.

This is really a great map!!
I thought it was confusing with all thoses lines, but with a closer look they connect perfectly and logically.
I put this map direct in my favorite map. You're really a great mapmaker, thanks for making this map!

That means a lot, thank you.

Someone has to make a slotted diplomacy on this