# Episode 5: Clan and CW changes are coming?

(And a coin contest!)

We are now in the 49 season of Clan Wars. The highlight of previous season is that Harmony tied with Optimum for top-2 but due to the mod-128 tiebreaker, Optimum got top-2 and harmony was left with top-3. But I am here not to discuss that.

Lately (hm...a few years) there has not been much change in Clan Wars. There have been changes to CW in the couple of first seasons (introduction of new templates, tweaks to the template selction), and in 13 season CW prizes were increased, but since then we are playing the same old good Clan Wars.

Threads about changes to CW or to clans (in relation to CW) have always popped up here and there on the forums. I was actually surprised, when in autumn-winter 2023 there were no such threads. Yet recently, there has been a surge in the quantity of such threads. Maybe JK will post a link to his updated list of CW threads ;)

From a overview, the issues, which people complain about a the same:
- clan cap (which was introduced to support Clan Wars)
- template selection
- rewards
- participation mechanics

It is interesting, that while most of the issues are valid (except the "rewards" issue), people suggest such a wide range of ideas on how to fix them, that some of those ideas are just making the clan life and CW strictly worse, than they are currently. Forums are open to everyone to post, thus people who don't even actively play CW, feel that their opinion is most fair. Unfortunately for us, Fizzer may listen to those ideas and implement them. (Imagine a situation, that a person, who has never run a clan, and is not in clan for a long period of time, suggests an idea which makes Clan Manager's life worse, and it gets implemented? Well... you don't need to imagine that, as literally that exact situation happened in the most recent Warzone update.)

The debates in these threads a very heated. To understand, how heated the debates may be, just know, that my opponent in one of those debates ventured as far as to try to revoke my Warzone life-time membership, because of my CW suggestion.

With so many ideas, floating around there have emerged dedicated groups, which try to make a consolidated proposal to Fizzer based on gathered. I remember such groups were even a few years ago ("Let's Improve Clan Wars" by l4v.r0v), and I got invited to a few new groups recently.

We got one juicy leak though: in one of his responses Fizzer said, that he is working on something about clans and we should expect news about that in the next few weeks.

What exactly is he planning, we dont know.

---

So, my today question for you:
- What will Fizzer actually implement in the next few weeks (or even months)?

The closest answer will be rewarded with 50 coins!
Practically winning a big raffle, but better!

When the next update, featuring anything major about clans, comes out, I will review your answers and if any of those will be at least roughly on target, I will rewards the author. Please, play attention that this question is not about "what Fizzer should implement", but "what Fizzer actually implements".

Post your answers! :D

Previous episode: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/757659-prime-hour-click-now?Offset=39

I know some things that he has planned for the next update but it’s not relevant to this thread.

Kabix 2v2 will be added or another template change.

You don’t know what for certain if you’re having the to say alternatives.

Kabix 2v2 will be added or another template change.

That's the power of positive thinking, which I like. Since Doctor K has experience in making his Uservoices implemented in WZ, it is time to go and rig the contest by voting here: https://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051/suggestions/48526994 he-he

I have a general feedback: while I would like to watch this thread because I quite enjoy reading the sorta-kinda-podcast, getting an update about *every single response* is a bit too much. In other message boards, a situation like that is sometimes solved by creating separate discussion/comment threads for the individual "episodes". This is a bit more effort to set up, but might benefit the overall readability as well, because you can also scroll through and find things faster in case you wanted to go back and reread something.

I have a general feedback: while I would like to watch this thread because I quite enjoy reading the sorta-kinda-podcast, getting an update about *every single response* is a bit too much. In other message boards, a situation like that is sometimes solved by creating separate discussion/comment threads for the individual "episodes". This is a bit more effort to set up, but might benefit the overall readability as well, because you can also scroll through and find things faster in case you wanted to go back and reread something.

That is an interesting idea. I might try it in the future, when I expect a lot of discussions. Yet, I am not sure how to prevent people from posting here.

Currently, to ease the search:
- I maintain a updating list of link to each of the episodes in the very first post of this thread.
- I add link to previous episode to the new episodes

In the WCNewsletter, I also had a standalone curated blog with RSS export, but I doubt, that anyboy used it.

Clans in 3D!

More seriously some comfort of life things for clan managers, like being able to mail all members. Fix the bug for clan requests notifications on mobile. Being able to put your clan as a prerequisite on games and tournaments.

Just kidding, it's definitely going to be clans in 3D.

# Episode 6: Game stats dump

Recently I was collecting some game data, and managed to get a count of all Warzone games, and do some categorization. Seems interesting to look at it ;)

The following is a chart with the quarterly Warzone game counts by various categories:


Disclaimers:
- A high rez chart with more details on imgur: https://imgur.com/OnsdHIN
- There is no breakdown of QM and Auto games by templates, because for simplicity I only used game names as source data. Breaking down QM is probably an idea for a future research.
- For all the Lotto fans: the lotto games are labeled just having "lotto" or "lottery" in their name, and, what is more important, the lotto labeled games are the lotto games, which otherwise would fall into the "Other category", as (see previous point) QM Lottos are not separated from QM category

Insights:
- When people complain: "Less open games now in Dashboard, than a few years ago. Warzone is dead!", they are totally wrong. QuickMatch helped Warzone to greatly increase the number of games played, and is still the king now! Feel free to redirect them to this post with stats ;)
- All the ladders are barely noticeable in the grand landscape of Warzone. If you are a ladder Warlus, then... you definitely not the WZ majority :p Also note that there is a spike in ladder participation in 3-4Q 2023 after the Ladder revamp was implemented.
- Even outside the QM, lottos are a big chunk of WZ games. Lotto games count is more than Ladders, more than CW, more than Auto.
- 2Q 2020 - Covid spike?
- 2Q 2024 - Idk, why the game count dropped so significantly. Any ideas?

So, what do you think? Have I missed anything interesting in the chart?

Previous episode: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/757659-prime-hour-click-now?Offset=40

Edited 7/7/2024 16:52:17

This is a great and interesting statistic, thanks for your work! As for your interpretation of the results, there are two aspects you should consider:

- You cannot use number of lotto games to determine the share of players playing lotto games, because an average lotto player plays a lot more games than an average strategic player. So if you want to find out how many players mainly play lotto games, you've got to heavily discount the total number of games you see. As a lotto game takes 10-20 times less time to play than a strategic game, you might want to try dividing the number of games by a number in that ballpark.

- If people say there are fewer open games now, and you say there are many Quickmatches now, then you are talking about different things and neither of you is wrong. The vibrant open games community is pretty much gone, and there is no statistic that is going to tell you that, because the number of relevant games would be too small and there is no hard criteria that would allow you to identify the games as such. This is something you need to have experienced back in the days to see the difference.

Edited 7/7/2024 04:37:41

QM, auto game, and other make all other categories extremely hard to visually see the amount of other games.

Dang, 2024 Q2 had just as much lotto tourney games as regular tourney games 😱

Nice stats, thanks a lot 5s!

the lotto games are labeled just having lotto in their name

Does this also include "lottery"?

Does this also include "lottery"?

Nice question! Actually they didnt. I wonder what lotto-synonyms I might have left out ;) I have now recompiled the data and updated the chart. The post now contains the correct update chart (the old chart is stil here: https://imgur.com/t5F30hp)

With the updated chart we see:
- The share of lotto games increased significantly compared to the old chart.
- Lotto is the only significantly growing game type of 2Q 2024. (Basically Lotto is keeping Warzone alive in 2024 :D)
- The lotto spike of "2013-2015" is both bigger and longer

Were any significant features added that are unlocked with levels around the correspinding timeframes? No, right?

Might want to include other lotto game names that don’t include the words lotto or lottery

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=4944202

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=4945613

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5005798

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5044006

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5034114

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5048090

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5054506

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5108380

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5109251

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5114473

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5116799

https://www.warzone.com/MultiPlayer?GameID=5121759

Were any significant features added that are unlocked with levels around the correspinding timeframes? No, right?

We need to summon some good Warzone historian to the thread!

it's not surprising that there were more Lotto tourney games than regular tourneys, b/c multiple players generate multiple Lotto tourneys, some of them Round Robin which can generate ~200-ish games

sometimes it's for XP, sometimes it's for wheel spins, but Lotto games can be spammed so fast so hard that i'm actually surprised they don't rival the 'other' category; but it is humourous to see that there were more Lotto games than CW games [chuckle chuckle]

just read this line:

- Lotto is the only significantly growing game type of 2Q 2024. (Basically Lotto is keeping Warzone alive in 2024 :D)

[more chuckling]

and since we're on the topic, if you want to join the Free Daily Wheel Spin community, check out this thread: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/767437-free-daily-wheel-spin-community

and soon we'll have another ~200 lotto games that don't even contain the word "lotto" or "lottery" (;

Edited 7/7/2024 20:43:26

# Episode 7. DanWL leaves Warzone. Part 1.

This is a major event for Warzone. If I had not been a part of those event, I would be definitely describing it, or at least mentioning it. That's why I feel that for historical purposes it would be better to cover it anyway, despite the potential backlash for me personally. The following is the description of events, which IMHO led to DanWL's deleting his account.

Disclaimer: As I was a major part of the events, and because people like to downvote posts based lately, I decided to split the episode in two forum posts:
- The more objective factual part, which is aimed to only present the timeline in the most neutral matter, which I can. If you think, that I missed a fact or recalled a fact incorrectly, please dont downvote the post, but instead write to me, so that I could amend the post without it being downvoted.
- The more subjective part, where I give my own opinion and judgement. If there will any second part, as I am still not sure if there any benefit for posting it.

If you want to express much appreciation to DanWL, it is probably better to do in Tacky's dedicated thread: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/768100-danwl
If you want to express something less than much appreciation to DanWL, you may venture to the last thread, where DanWL's last unedited meta posts are: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/767591-possible-remove-someones-ltm

Ok, now to the story!

---

Background

- DanWL was a prominent Warzoner since ages ago
- He created and maintained multiple Warzone mods
- He created multiple popular Warzone Userscripts
- He was recognized by the community and awarded various Warzone community awards
- DanWL has sponsored a lot of Warzone Lifetime Memberships to other players. My own LTM was gifted to me by DanWL during https://www.warzone.com/Forum/615708-first-correctly-solve-gets-prize
- Long time ago he was high-tier Moderator on WZ team (I dont really know the tiers, but he was), but due to some events related to player Kenghis Ghan#1, his general moderation rights were removed
- DanWl's most recent mod status was a forum moderator (I think, he couldn't delete threads, but he could move them between forums)
- 2023: Long before the events, DanWL has left clan The Last Alliance (where he had been for a long time) and since then remained outside clans with his main account
- 2023-2024 Prior to the events it seems like DanWL also left a few discord servers, where he had been an active member, but then he might have rejoined some

Drama events

- 2024.05.21: I create forum thread "Duel Lotto for CW templates" (the "DL CW" thread), which is initially a blatant rip off of another forum thread "Tiny Troubles + Tarabonia for CW templates". TLDR of the "DL CW" thread:
- There is a debate on whether Duel Lotto should be added to Clan Wars
- DanWL is one one the main opponents of the suggestion
- There are a lot of posts being downvoted to hidden
- Closer to the end of the thread, the debates are heated and elevated to personal
It is very hard to describe the contents of the thread without throwing in personal views, so you might want to check it out yourself (including the downvoted posts): https://www.warzone.com/Forum/760891-duel-lotto-cw-templates

- 2024.05.2X: DanWL blocklists me. (I think, that at some point DanWL also blocks me on Discord, but I cant tell when, since DanWL and me didn't have any interactions on discord since 2023)

- 2024.05.26: I create forum thread "Who is ■?", which is a blatant rip-off of previous DanWL's thread "Who is Truth Drangon?" (the "Truth Dragon" thread), but aimed at DanWL's alt account "■".
-- At the moment of thread creation, I knew whose alt was ■, and it was the reason for the thread to exist at all.
-- DanWL's thread on the Truth Dragon was already covered in the previous episode of the podcast https://www.warzone.com/Forum/757659-prime-hour-click-now?Offset=38 Since the coverage, the thread had derailed into off-topic, and DanWL downvoted the thread to get it hidden.

- 2024.05.2X: From DanWL's comments in global chat, we assume that DanWL reaches out to Fizzer to revoke my LTM (which was initially gifted to me by him). In the later leaked screencasts, it is seen that the PM thread to Fizzer has 4 messages, so, I assume, there was at least some follow up discussion to the initial request. Later in global chat DanWL explained the reason:

the general idea of even suggesting duel lotto is why i dont want 5s to have the membership

How 5s pushes for lotto is why I have him BLed and want his membership removed

- 2024.05.2X: DanWL blocklists a few other players, with whom he had brief discussions about topics either directly or indirectly related to Duel Lotto and Clan Wars. (Since the "DL CW" thread is still active, it sometimes provokes discussions in global chat, when new posts appear.)

- 2024.06.12: In a barely related forum thread "Waiting until the last minute to take your turn", which is about stallers, DanWL posts a message, stating that he had created and staller autopilot script at my request, and if DanWL would be banned for making such a script, then he names a few players (including me), which should be banned as well. https://www.warzone.com/Forum/759831-waiting-until-last-minute-take-turn?Offset=20

- 2024.07.08 - DanWL posts a message in global chat, considering removing my LTM thread. I use a screenshot of the message and create a forum thread "Is it possible to remove someone's LTM?" (the "LTM" thread). https://www.warzone.com/Forum/767591

- 2024.07.08-10: There are a few feature request threads, where DanWL and I have some heated debates in the comments:
-- DanWL's "Blocklisted posts should get hidden". https://www.warzone.com/Forum/767581-blocklisted-posts-hidden
-- My "Add Duel Lotto to Clan Wars" https://www.warzone.com/Forum/767580-add-duel-lotto-clan-wars
-- Else's "Adding template voting to Clan Wars" https://www.warzone.com/Forum/767814-adding-template-voting-clan-wars

- 2024.07.11 ~00:00 UTC: DanWL posts a message in the "LTM" thread, where he states that the "LTM" thread was created to harass him and creates two threads where he posts his side of the story. Those threads were later nuked and I wasn't able to recover them from browser cache, so this is what I remember from them:

- The thread "Fivesmith is a manipulative lier" (the "liar" thread)
-- DanWL stated, that I exploit the reputation, which I build from the Warzone Community Newsletter and The Prime Hour threads, in order to push my subjective agenda and harm DanWL.
-- DanWL stated that he had 5 alts. He disclosed 4 of those, and the 5th was a secret alt (level 56 and in clan), which he preferred to not disclose.
-- DanWL stated that he used alts to downvote the "Truth Dragon" thread as the thread went off-topic, but aside from that, he did not use alts to downvote my threads
-- There was collection of screenshotted messages by me from the "DL CW" thread: https://postimg.cc/gallery/bcBVRcDH
-- DanWL stated that he had privately contacted Fizzer in order for my LTM to be removed, because he considered the LTM, which he had purchased and gifted to me, was owned by him, and Fizzer declined

- The thread "What's in your mailbox?" (the "mailbox" thread)
-- Initially the thread only contained only a link to a youtube video without any comments. The linked video by DanWL named "Leaked PMs with Fivesmith" was a screencast of a few selected PMs thread between him and me
-- Later DanWL stated, that this video was supposed to be an evidence for the mods, who would be processing his report on me but will be unable to view the PMs directly
-- DanWL stated that the "Truth Dragon" thread was not created as a manhunt, but turned into a manhunt after (or thanks to) me providing links to The Truth Dragon's games, which I had collected through questionable means.

- 2024.07.11: Probably something happens... on that further...

- 2024.07.11 ~13:00 UTC: The "liar" thread was deleted. The "mailbox" thread gets downvoted, and all of DanWL's message are edited to be empty
- 2024.07.11 ~13:00 UTC: DanWL deletes his account and 5 accounts of his alts (including the undisclosed one)
- 2024.07.11: It seems like, DanWL also deletes his Warzone mods and userscripts

Why did DanWL leave?

I don't know, what happened on 2024.07.11. I had no interaction with DanWL since he made those two "liar"+"mailbox" threads. I assume (here is my speculation), that his report on me was not successful, and the "liar" thread was deleted by mods (I think DanWL cannot delete threads, because in that case he would have deleted either none or both of them).
So that reaction to his report might have triggered DanWL to withdraw from Warzone.

I am not aware of any other events recently, which might have cause DanWL to delete his accounts, so the described timeline and the assumption, which I posted, are my best understanding.

Previous episode: https://www.warzone.com/Forum/757659-prime-hour-click-now?Offset=48

Edited 7/13/2024 20:59:58

# Episode 7. DanWL leaves Warzone. Part 2.

My opinion.

While DanWL and I had really strong opinions on certain suggestions by the other party, I value a lot what DanWL has done for Warzone in general, and for me personally. And I mean not just the LTM, but that he had provided assistance to me on various requests.

Yet, I do strongly think, that ingame issues should not be elevated to personal level. Criticize ideas and actions, but not the person. The corrupt spiral of "disagreeing on ideas" -> "undermining opponent's personality" -> "insults" [DanWL did not do that!] -> "trying to harm your opponent" -> "trying to remove your opponent", is very hard to unwind.

Was the whole situation driven just by the "DL CW" thread, or was the "DL CW" thread just a catalyst for somethin else going on? I dont know.

DanWL's departues is clearly a net loss for Warzone. While lots of people, blocked/critisized by DanWL, didnt really suffer, there are way more people who benefitted from his deeds for the community.

It would be nice for DanWL to return. If he does, I will be very welcoming him back.