But immoral to who? Immoral is on a personal level, what one person may find immoral, another may not.

The fact that there are so many disagreements on right on wrong only furthers the need for a strong,central code. In some societies murder or rape is allowed under the right circumstances, it is ok to them, but not to us. Yet we seek to push our views on those things unto them because it's what must be done.

Society would eventually go into anarchy if left to it's own devices, that's why there needs to be somebody/something deciding right and wrong.

Side note, Otherkin is so out there I really don't even know what to say about it....

Edited 3/16/2015 12:25:11

And that is why we have democracy.

Eklipse, the only reason I disagree with otherkin is because it's associated with transgender. The identification of species difference is what really gets me. You have people like me trying to just be happy in life with hrt and etc, and then kids at like 15 saying they were born a dragon -_-

Hohenzollern, your argumentation is full with insults and polemic, since your first sentence in this thread. I dont know why you claim to be the only one with a proper argumentation or superior intelligence. Though, religiousness has never been a proof for intelligence or reason.

Anyway, I didn't said that two people loving each other is something wrong (except if they are the same gender, but I guess they anyway lost their humanity doing that, so it shouldn't be included) another proof of your retarded thought process.

So homosexuals arent human? could you pls elaborate your statement?

I guess I will be called a "nazi", "racist", homophobe"

no one did so, so far, but you are doing great to change this.

Love by itself is not valid defense for something. Polygamists claim that their relationships are full of love, yet polygamy is still banned. Certain people who partake an incest claim their relationships are full of love, yet incest is still banned or at-least severely frowned upon. People involved with bestiality will often cite love, yet bestiality is still banned.

Either all the things I listed need to be legalized, or the "It's ok because love!"excuse doesn't cut it.

Pls dont compare those things with homosexuality. It is by far not the same! Furthermore there is no need to change laws like those about incest and polygamy or pedophilia. Those dont intend to prevent people from loving each other. They rather intend to prevent violations in specific cases.

Facts are on my side and the way you described whole problem of lgbt and religion puts me in position to safely call you a person who is really brainwashed and next messages from you to call you a stupid person.
Just the fact that you believe in those lies is a reason to not consider you as a normal person.

I havent seen any facts from you, pointing out your position. could you possibly tell me why you believe to be right?

Pls dont compare those things with homosexuality. It is by far not the same! Furthermore there is no need to change laws like those about incest and polygamy or pedophilia. Those dont intend to prevent people from loving each other. They rather intend to prevent violations in specific cases.

I think you need to re-read the discussion I had with Lawlz. I don't think incest and polygamy should be legalized (And I never even mentioned pedophilia, where did you get that from?), I'm also quite aware that they all aren't the same. However, it is true that defenders of gay marriage and defenders of polygamy/incest/bestiality all commonly use love as a primary defense. It's hypocritical of society at large that LGBTs can get away with that defense but the other groups I mentioned don't. (I will re-iterate, I don't support gay marriage nor polygamy or whatever else listed. However I hate the lack of consistency with the status-quo)

Lawlz, is otherkin meant to be some kind of political satire against transgenders or are these people actually serious with what they're saying? (Please tell me it's the former....how the heck could you be "born a dragon"?)

I like how Lawlz makes this thread in order to defend himself for his Nazi ways.

Eklipse, I really dont need to re-read it. I got your point this why I added pedophilia. I also know that you wont change those laws. I just wanted to point out, that you are comparing crimes with sexual orientation. Im sorry if I havent made that clear enough for you....

Edited 3/16/2015 13:07:46

It's entirely serious, and it only hurts the arguments of LGBT that much more. Along with Otherkin comes demisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, homoromantic, etc etc etc. They've basically made a joke of everything we're trying to get rights for.

A new joke that I read:

I like AK-47s. I love AK-47s. I'm getting some transplants today. Soon, I'm going to turn into an SPAS-12. Then, we can mate.

Stop saying that's gross; your being gun fearful. Gunfearer.

Ranek, gay marriage is a crime in some places, in others it's been decriminalized. People who want to decriminalize the things I mentioned use similar methods as those who want to decriminalize gay marriage. It is a valid comparison, I don't understand your confusion.

along with Otherkin comes demisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, homoromantic, etc etc etc.

People love making new terms for themselves to try and feel unique. Oh, and don't forgot the wave of false claims about being asexual. (I know some people really are, but they're pretty much in a giant shadow of the people who aren't but claim to be.)

Also, my reaction when people try to legitimately state they were born a mythical creature...

gay marriage is a crime in some places, in others it's been decriminalized. People who want to decriminalize the things I mentioned use similar methods as those who want to decriminalize gay marriage. It is a valid comparison, I don't understand your confusion.

Damn it Eklipse. =D Im really sorry, but either you are annoyingly dumb or annoyingly trolling. there has never been doubts about your comparisons. The parity of sexual orientation and sexual abuse, in your explicit case, only depends on randon opinion and is totally wrong. Every half way reasonable human wouldnt consider sexual orientation to be a crime! Thoughts like that are just dumb and racist, in fact you are raising your own standards to be superior judgement.

The parity of sexual orientation and sexual abuse, in your explicit case, only depends on randon opinion and is totally wrong.

I've never said anything about sexual abuse. Unless you're saying incest is always abuse which isn't the case. Stop throwing in things I never said to try and demonize my position.

Every half way reasonable human wouldnt consider sexual orientation to be a crime!

Well, I guess half the world's population (or more) must be clinically insane then. Also, the definition of what is a crime isn't a matter of moral consideration but a matter of law. Laws determine what is a crime and what isn't, and laws can be wrong. This means that things that are morally sound can be crimes while things that are bad can be legal. Law =/= morals.

but either you are annoyingly dumb or annoyingly trolling.

I could say the same to you. Every time we've argued you've managed to avoid my main arguments and go off on some random tangent that I can't make heads or tails of.

I dont talk about pedophilia. even though it fits.

gay marriage is a crime in some places, in others it's been decriminalized

Your premise is: homosexuality is a crime. This is all I dont agree with. It has the disgusting taste of racism...

Your premise is: homosexuality is a crime. This is all I dont agree with. It has the disgusting taste of racism...

Homosexuality is a crime in some countries: That is a FACT. It's not a premise, it's a fact. Whether you agree or not gay marriage is illegal in some parts of the world. You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

Secondly, LGBTs are not a race.

God's supposed wrath on Sodom and Gomorra should have eradicated the gays, and the flood, and all the other bullshit. But oh look at that, lgbt still exists, wonder why. Maybe it's a natural thing, and it's just been pushed into the fringe by religion all this time as sin.


Sin is a natural thing to humanity that's why its still here.

God doesn't exist.

Maybe that's why.

Maybe this might not be the right topic on a war game, while it is in the off-topic forum ,this is more of a serious topic then what I think should be discussed.
PS X you said never to assume , who knows what could exist and what couldn't , maybe Santa was shot down over Nazi Germany but escaped back to Finland , but once the Finns allied the Germans he took his factory to America and thats why the American industry was so great. (I'll admit the Santa thing wasn't even related to what X said I just wanted to say something crazy)

There is evidence of homosexuality being both genetic and enviromental (and it probably is both). Research has prooven that siblings, children, families tend to be more likely to be homosexual if another family member is homosexual. However, it has also been shown to be enviromental. An example is when prisoners alledgedly turn gay whilst in prison due to the fact that they are restricted to only the same sex with which they shower with etc... The most likely reason is that everyone is at least a little bit gay but some are just more. So stop trying to say homosexuality is wrong as if someone put a gun to your head, you would turn gay. If the only sex you saw for your whole life was the same, you would turn gay. Perhaps even if religion and society was pro homosexuality and anti heterosexuality, you might end up gay.

Lawlz, What is your point?

People don't just "become" lgbt, they're born that way.

Show evidence, or shut up.

Infact, do yourself a favor and actually read a couple of scientific journals on both sides of the topic. Then give your interpretation based on evidence provided and explain why you've taken the stance you have.

Or just go with your gut feeling and attempt to shove it down everyone's throat, all the while attempting to shame those who don't agree with you. You know, like you claim the opposition is doing.

God doesn't exist.

Maybe that's why.