Hurting my brain. What was America then? Of course they had freedom of speech and private ownership. What are you on about?

Collectivisation helped in the long term, what about the short time? "Stalin had no intention for shorten effect" You knew him personally? Try and look up the affects of collectivisation before giving a false statement.

Gulags - the point is to keep them Alive to work

Oh so they each had their own little apartment did they, with room service. The gulags were slave labour camps, so many went there they didn't care how many died.

Sources are all over, try looking at some yourself.

I mean, everyone was doing that - it was after World War 2!

The British and Germans treated each others POW's very well and they certainly didn't kill civilians.

I do not know what axiomatically means. But they certainly weren't demceatic. Stalin killed all his opposition between the purges.

Every country has limited speech freedom - if you said you think Communism is better than Capitalism too much in America, you'd be rehabilitated or shut up in some way before long. Just like it's counterpart would do.

Also, there's no reason why anyone would want to kill around 10 million their country's folk - 10 million workers, soldiers, folk is a resource like any other and you want to have as many resources as you can.

And of course they cared - like you say yourself, gulags are slave work camps, the more the merrier (unless it's over capacity).

Oh, you mean WPs, well, I can believe that (two Germanic races), but Hitler hated Slavs (and races different to his) way more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heim_ins_Reich

Poland, Russia were very affected by mass killings - 1/5 population died in Poland, 1/4 in Belarus. Nazi owned war prisoners had something like 15% death rate.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/axiomatic?q=axiomatically#axiomatic__6

Read the Soviet constitution, I have not read the 1936 one, but I'd imagine it's similar to the 1918 one. Not saying it was democratic, but near every country is democratic "by definition".

Edited 5/13/2015 20:15:45

Juq is so pro Russian and a blind chauvinist that he cannot even admit the obvious: without American help no way the Russians could have won against the Germans.

Edited 5/14/2015 07:17:41

I think he's a communist

communism has nothing to do with that, my family (particularly my mother) are communists and I am a socialist too, anything wrong with that?

Every country has limited speech freedom - if you said you think Communism is better than Capitalism too much in America, you'd be rehabilitated or shut up in some way before long. Just like it's counterpart would do.

You can believe in what you want. It will never work though.

@ Apollo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism#Victims_of_McCarthyism

Against communism, wasn't there a thing called the Cold War? Anythingelse other than communism?

The persian wars against the Ancient Greeks.

Battle of Marathon (480 BC)
Battle of Thermopylae (480 BC)
Naval Battle of Salamis (479 BC)
Battle of Platea (479 BC)

Haven't you ever read animal farm, xy? Written BY a communist? Stalin wanted power, nothing else. His industrial plans made the county a war machine while the people suffered.

Constitution if 1918 were lenin days. Better pull up that 1836 constitution instead.

Soviets would have won without American help, because of Britain, but they would have had a rough time and might have lost a few more battles, like Leningrad or Moscow. Germans simply didn't have the manpower the soviets had, and weren't prepared for winter.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/axiomatic

Apollo has too pro-American bias...no big country is democratic and cares for it's folk.

Lenin was definitely better than Stalin

I am not even American, nor am I pro-American. I am a British patriotic and that's it. Russia was a fully communist dictatorship, lead by one man. One time, Stalin gave a speech which resulted in applause for 15 minutes, until one man stopped, that man was arrested the next day. When Stalin died no one realised for awhile, because no one dared enter his room. Russia was a terror state that made its people suffer and fear, that's one of the main reasons Russia won the war.

Stalin had no political opponents, that is not democracy. People couldn't vote, that is not democracy. Russia was by definition not a democracy. America and any other capitalist nations people could vote, this is democracy and thus care. So could they own private property or businesses.

Lenin was better than Stalin but he still used war communism in the civil war and so did he steal grain off the peasants. We couldn't see what else he would do, as he died so early.

I am not saying Russia had democracy, I am saying the West had none, either. The vote? Inconsequential, just how much money does each elite group want to spend to get their candidate in? And many folk in Belarus and Ukraine did defect for a year or so, but they found Nazi Germany too atrocious, and defected back or stayed neutral. They were fighting for life, not from fear from Russia, but fear from Nazi Germany. Look up Khatyn. Russia, by definition, was a democracy. Read it, what I told you.

And you can see - see NEP.

And don't be patriotic, please. Patriotism is the past's measles.

1.I am not saying Russia had democracy...
...2.Russia, by definition, was a democracy.

Does this make sense? What is democracy if the west didn't have it?

They were fighting for life, not from fear from Russia, but fear from Nazi Germany.

I'd rather live in Hitlers Germany than Stalins Russia.

NEP?

And don't be patriotic, please. Patriotism is the past's measles.

Hypocritical or what....

Edited 5/14/2015 15:48:27

Apollo, you can't understand. Almost every country is axiomatically a democracy, but most aren't actually democracies. What is democracy? Good frain. Only unmportant neutral countries can be democracies. So, right now, Niger is a true republic, for example.

If you'd rather live in Hitler's Germany than Stalin's Russia, I think you're beyond help...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy

I'm not hypocritical, I'm just making sure that no country doesn't shine fully.

I think you are getting confused with historic "Pure democracies", there are no pure democracies in the world today. Ancient Athens was a pure democracy.

"Democracy: government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system" Russia didn't allow parties, no votes, no private ownership and was a total dictatorship. It may have been a axiomatically democracy but in practise it was not. America and other capitalist nations were the opposite.

Stalin killed more than Hitler, you had an equal or even higher chance of being killed in Stalins Russia. Germany was also more developed and had better working and living conditions. More importantly, living in either would be significantly worse than that of the Uk or US.

Oh yes, NEP. Your point?

You are hypocritical. Why do you argue Stalins Russia wasn't a brutal regime?

Plus, Hitler only persecuted political rivals and those he deemed " evil ", like jews and gypsies. Stalin killed everybody. If you didn't have a feeling of doubt about nazi Germany publicly admitted, you were good to go.

I think you are getting confused with historic "Pure democracies", there are no pure democracies in the world today. Ancient Athens was a pure democracy.

"Democracy: government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system" Russia didn't allow parties, no votes, no private ownership and was a total dictatorship. It may have been a axiomatically democracy but in practise it was not. America and other capitalist nations were the opposite.

Soviet Union had one public elite - the Politburo. The difference with America and NATO is that their elections were controlled by other countries and/or by several elite groups.

Stalin killed more than Hitler, you had an equal or even higher chance of being killed in Stalins Russia. Germany was also more developed and had better working and living conditions. More importantly, living in either would be significantly worse than that of the Uk or US.

You still haven't proved yourself on your claim. Germany was more developed and better working and living conditions if the "Living Space" was reserved for you. In fact, if the "Living Space" was reserved for you, pre-Real War Germany would be even better to live in than Britain (not sure about America, maybe it would be best).

NEP - My point, you're wrong again.

I'm not hypocritical - Stalin was an evil man, but you are overestimating just how evil.

Plus, Hitler only persecuted political rivals and those he deemed " evil ", like jews and gypsies. Stalin killed everybody. If you didn't have a feeling of doubt about nazi Germany publicly admitted, you were good to go.

Stalin only persecuted political rivals, those that spoke out. As long as you keep your head down, be a lawabiding denizen and have no personal connection to Stalin at all, you're good to go.

Xyapy, you tell Apollo to stop being patriotic. I tell you this. Stop being a Soviet Nationalist and face the facts. There isn't a Soviet Union anymore.