We talk aside of each other. Mis-talk or similar. I do not know how to express it in english. It aint exactly my first language as can be seen.

I asked what source you want or what am I missing? I did and do not intend to make it flame war nor be arrogant against anyone. No I do not expect one to know every fact. But the BASIC fact that if one uses a term he ought to know what it means and in this case It seemed like most of people can not make the difference even in terms like Fascims, nazism and national socialism? No false fact indeed using it, just bad interpretations putting them into same jar of shit. And if it felt any way that I preach that Nazism is not evil or anything like, then you misunderstood me.

Like I emphasized in my first post the OP deduction form - it was simply misleading. Second the talk about Mein Kamp and Hitler hating jews and it being the core principle - second absurd. Hate of jews was not Hitlers personal ambition nor invention. It is called antisemitism and its been around for centuries - and that is the common knowledge. If you want source to that then please Type in Google Scholar (for google E-book source) and search: antisemitism, hate of jews, nazism ideological principles etc, or for simple way just wikipedia for antisemitism - hoping it will give a core understanding of it and its origin - although not taking this info as full and granted.

What i meant by that is that hate of jews can´t be reduced to argument of Hitler and his personal belief.

To start about the topic then at first one must make sure he understands the core Terms - and in this case hardly its presumptions was fulfilled. I do not ask nor care research put accuracy of knowing what one types - at least in level on terms. Discussion follows to it. There is no point of comparing results if imput is incorrect. Its a lost cause and waste of time here - all that it has proved.

And I especially like the part how 3 people quote the one phrase over and over as said before "birds of a feather flock together" and "sheep bleep together".

Is it so hard to understand the idea behind source and what requires one and argument that does not? At least you knew how to turn argument vice-versa, but too bad context failed.

Edited 6/19/2015 20:38:11

Like Pie said, preach what you practise

6/19/2015 02:44:39


Genghis WarLight Member
Level 50

Paraphrase
" You don't even have sources "

Practice what you preach.

6/19/2015 09:45:25


OnlyThePie
Level 51
And I'm going to quote Ghengis here, because i liked what he said, "Practice what you preach" asshole.

^

We were in no way saying Facism and Nazism are the same. But we were saying that Antisemitism is a core belief of Hitler himself. The whole idea of punishing the Jews was his and the other Nazi leaders. Prove to me that Antisemitism wasn't propagandized, championed, and forced upon the German people by Hitler, and then I'll start giving you credit. But for now, as Genghis has so kindly illustrated, I want to smash my computer.

Pie. I was not referring to any of you. And yes, antisemitism was not only his but as well others Nazi leaders ideology. And antisemitism had its roots already previous to party in german, but like you said propagandized etc - and I could not agree more. I would not use the word forced that strong. Forced - yes, but antisemitism had its roots in Europe since middle-ages and Nazis just used the previous hatred to populize themselves. (Source any decent History Book or even Wikipedia; keyword roots of antisemitism in Europe)

I would not argue that it was merely political, there were definitely a lot personal hate among those, but it seems behind it was more of clever political-propagandist way to mobilize people for "a creater cause". Creating negative image of a jew and laying all the war, economic etc blame on jews worked rather effectively in internal affairs (For example the current European trend is to blame immigrants for everything). It was a propaganda - but who can we blame? The people who believed it or propaganda? Can we at all lay such accuse? I do not know the answer - it seems weird enought to judge dead people. But if you compare it to everyday political propaganda - then usually the voter holds the torch of blame not the propagandists. I had nor have any aim to prove antisemitism was not propangadized - it was and done quite effectively. But I would just add a fact that antisemitism is quite an old thing in Europe. What Nazis did - they just made it legal, state policy. My criticism was towards something else - it seems it went unnoticed!

By the way. I cant find the page, but there were site where people sold those old 90-s 2000-s old keyboards for smashing. It came quite cheap :) And believe or not - this company did quite well :D I am wondering whether they had a subscription list for ragers.

By the way. I cant find the page, but there were site where people sold those old 90-s 2000-s old keyboards for smashing. It came quite cheap :) And believe or not - this company did quite well :D I am wondering whether they had a subscription list for rager

What?

Smashing your Laptop-PC is quite expensive. Most people just used to smash-break their keyboard instead in rage mode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNq2oap_W9s

So someone came up with funny idea to start selling those old used white keyboards in 2010-s as they were cheap and people pretty much throwed them away or gave away for free. But it was best funny-joke to make for somoene to send a Repleacement-Rage-proof-keyboard or backup-for-raging.

I was ironical about the PC-smash topic.

I did not say that Hitler "invent" the anti-Semitism, is to start a new class of anti-Semitism on the basis of race, but most of the chance by who has cause to believe that, or he just really stupid .... I said that theories of why Hitler was a racist, I did not say he did something "new"
Before Nazism was anti-Semitic, but it was mostly economic things, because religion and kind of paranoid person with a different culture, a lot of cases was also very easy to blame the Jewish immigrant alien and mysterious
For example foolish belief that Jews started taking Christian children's blood, and it all began just a man who murdered a child and tried to frame the Jews (there was no evidence) to be acquitted

Most historians explain the advancement of the Jewish question as follows.

Hitler wrote about not liking Jews (and many other groups) in Mein Kampf 1923

In 1934 when Hitler takes power there is 1 day against the Jews

Until 1939 there is very little against the Jews there is talk up to 1941 about deporting rather than killing Jews

However WW2 means alot more Jews under German control

High up Nazi officials see away to get to Hitler in the polycratic Nazi system

Using the argument of "Working towards the Fuhrer" (Ian Kershaw) Jewish policy gets more and more radical until we get to the extermination camps.

Fascism didn't create the Jewish discrimination that it was seen alone.

The scary fact is that German people caused the Jewish issue to get where it did by 1945, not just Hitler's view otherwise it would have started before the war.

Both Hitler's leadership system and the Nazi officials are to blame.

Not just Hitler's views.

*minds blown*

not really. During Kristallnacht in 1938 the Jews essentially lost all their civil liberties and became second class citizens. Nobody ever thought it would go as far as mass genocide though.

I think I should also say that Concentration camps are really as bad as I used to think. In concentration camps people are simply "concentrated" in a small area, generally with poor slave working conditions. But you are still fed and you don't go to the gas chambers. The Concentration camps were not the major atrocity of WWll. America had their version of Concentration camps for Japanese Americans. The Soviets had hard labor and Concentration camps for prisoners of war, political disenters, (and yes, some jews).

The atrocities happened at the DEATH CAMPS. There were no gas chambers or human ovens at the concentration camps. It was at the DEATH CAMPS that the mass extermination of human life took place.

Its a little terminology but it pisses me off when people think that only the Nazi's had concentration camps.

"""I know this is from far back in the conversation, but I have to rip it to shreds:

Germany is called Germany for a reason and that isn't because it is home to the Jews or the French... it's because it's home to the Germans.
Seeing as Judaism is both a race and a religion, there were plenty of German Jews. Most Jews living in The Wiemar Republic or the Third Reich probably considered themselves German, unless they were recently immigrated.

Hitler just killed Jews because it was good for the economy and nobody really cared.
Slaughter of your entire middle class is not "Good for the economy." Hitler used the Jews as the scapegoat for the loss of the First World War, and this boosted everybody else's morale. They didn't care because they needed somebody to blame.
You have to remember that when you go to someone else's country you are a guest and you have no divine right to be there.
As a tourist. If you go to live, you become a citizen, even if you aren't legally one. Yes, you should be polite. But the Jews weren't rude, and they had been there for quite a while. They didn't do anything to Germany. Hitler just didn't like them, so he had them all killed.
What ties you to a land is where your ancestors and people lived... even though I originate in Germany I would never claim to be German. I'm English or Anglo-Saxon or British or Mercian. That's the land I grew up in and my parents and their parents grew up in.
Then don't act like the Jews weren't just as much citizens of Germany as the "Germans" were.
Jews were just as much guests in Germany as they are in Palestine.
Then I guess all Christians are "Guests" in the Americas. I guess all White people are "guests" pretty much everywhere except northern Europe. I guess all Russians are just "guests" in Kaliningrad. I GUESS when the Germans were in France, and East Europe, and Africa, they were just "guests." Or was it Conquerors?
Germans are the people of Germany. No matter how much you hate Hitler do not blame the Germans as a nation. You went to them, they didn't ask you to come.
Open your eyes. See justice.
Nobody blames the entire German race. I love the Germans. Wonderful people. There is no justice in the sheep-like following of a psychopath like Hitler though. You open YOUR eyes."""


"Not to speak is to speak. Not to stand is to stand." Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke.

Don't you see? I hold the German people as the prime suspects of the Holocaust. They elected Hitler. They let him take power and they didn't stand up against injustice. The people of Germany simply turned the other way when they saw the trains being loaded with Jews and political dissenters. The SS grunts that threw the gas in the chamber or the ones that threw the bodies onto the fire all own the guilt. They did nothing.

For example, if you see somebody shot in cold blood on the street and don't tell anybody then you can be charged and locked up in jail in America. To not say anything to pure evil is in itself evil. The only Germans that I don't hold blame on are men and women like Dietrich Bonhoeffer who stood up against evil where they saw it and to those who honestly didn't know about the atrocities.

It's called Germany because it means neighbor in Latin. ...

Life in the ghettos was really hard, there was very little food (about a slice of bread a day), and mostly died of disease and hunger, some say from the very beginning is to plan to kill all Jews and that is why Fighters were on the trains, that he planned to move them to a specific location, according to researchers since writing these very beginning of his book he planned it, but some researchers think he began the invasion of the Soviet Union it was a large number of Jews so he started a mass murder (Einsatzgruppen

Did nobody understand why i illustrated a computer destruction rage?