The French are not arrogant, Pandas just a asshole.

And God, 6-10%? what about the remaining 94-90%? Do you find this legitimate to ban an entire population upon the basis of an extremist minority. Guess what, any nation, any people in this earth have an extremist fringe of all kind, shall we ban the French because 10% of them are totally racist? Should we ban the Americans because 10% of them are religious zealots and want to declare war on the World because they think their nation is the chosen one by God? Should we ban the Chinese because 10% of them want to annihilate the Japanese and are still grieving for their action during ww2 whereas most of them weren't even born?

Perhaps I should reverse the question, so you can see the argument from another perspective. Should a country continue admitting massive number of refugees, fully aware that a statistical few are here to cause with the sole intent to cause terror and kill in the country? Admit them when they have no ability at all to determine their status? And what happens when attacks like Paris inevitably strike? That was only by 9 people, at least 2 of which, I believe, came in disguised as a refugee. How else would you as a national leader treat this crisis? Business as usual, and just clean up when disaster strikes?

Furthermore, I am not sure where you found your numbers. As a Chinese citizen, I have not heard of anybody openly declaring their intention to 'annihilate the Japanese,', much less than 10%, which amounts to 140 million people. Nor have I heard of any Chinese carrying out fatal terror attacks in Japan to avenge for WW2. The same goes for the other examples you gave.

So if I was your Muslim equivalent, upon seeing these statistics and has been said, I would indeed consider you as part of a dangerous people that needs to be stopped (this is what you advocate), if I was a Egyptian I would promulgate a law banning every Americans, see how dangerous they are! You see this cannot work...

The fact that a big part of Americans think Muslims are extremists and violent people show how much you clearly know nothing about their culture and history, they just repeat what the Media say...

It has absolutely nothing to do with culture or history...
It is all about action. I'm sure many Americans are indeed racist or indeed harbour prejudice towards Muslims or arabs, but why is this so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

How many lives have been lost in attacks all these years, carried out by people who have swore allegiance to various Islamic groups, be it Al-Qaeda or ISIS? How many people have died in 2015 in the name of Jihad? Comparatively when was the last time a Western citizen carried out a terrorist attack in Egypt in the name of Christianity? When was the last time American citizens attacked a Libyan embassy?And yet you still blame people for believing that some Muslims are 'extremists' and 'violent people'?

Like it or not, the Western world is pretty much at war with the ISIS, officially or unofficially. You send bombs and planes to attack them, they retaliate in the form of killing your reporters or sending jihadists to your lands. Meanwhile you are perched on your own cozy moral high ground and giving cliched arguments like 'Oh, not all Muslims are terrorists' or 'They are only a small percentage.' They are true but they don't stop lives from being killed in the name of Jihad!

Oh and you know what, this is not totally wrong, ISIS mainly originates from the disaster caused by the war in Iraq, don't blind yourself, the Syrians are here indeed right when they say ISIS has been created by the US,

I agree with you, the US has created a power vacuum thanks to the disposal of leaders like Hussein and Gaddafi. I'm not sure what point you are trying to say here, and besides, I'm not American anyway.

Edited 1/9/2016 03:17:23

remember that in 2003 the US asked to their allies to go with them for the war in Iraq, but guess what many states rightfully rejected it, these countries refused to help the US in this invasion that was perpetrated upon a lie (nuclear weapons) and would cause more damage than anything else (see the dire situation currently). After this, as France was one of the leading country opposing the US decision, the US government under Bush started a vast operation of banning French products, a really ridiculous act and if you consider this petition as insulting and abusive, what about this seriously? Tshh.

The fact that America did something stupid in the past does not excuse the British doing something similarly stupid. It's also irrelevant to this conversation.

Gosh, what about the US?

What about it? Stop trying to shift the focus. What the U.S has or has not done is totally irrelevant to this conversation. This is about a British petition which is extremely harmful to freedom of speech if allowed to set a precedent.

It's starting to appear as if your main defense in any international debate is to shift blame about how evil the United States is, regardless of if that actually impacts the current discussion or not. Has the United States banned people for stupid reasons in the past? Yes. Do I support that? Absolutely not. If this topic were actually about the U.S banning people over petty reasons than I would certainly express my opposition to those events. However, this isn't about the U.S. It's about a U.K petition.

A message for you and other American Jingoists: focus on your own affairs.

Ah, yes, keep relying on your buzzwords to discredit the opposition. "Nationalism!" "Jingoists!" "Xenophobes!"

Secondly, you should be directing that statement towards those who've signed this petition. Banning a foreign politician for saying something you don't like certainly doesn't count as focusing on your own affairs.

before judging about what other people do!

But isn't this British petition that you're heavily encouraging all about judging Trump for his views and words? You're digging yourself into a hole now.

Should a country continue admitting massive number of refugees, fully aware that a statistical few are here to cause with the sole intent to cause terror and kill in the country?

Yes.

Yes.

Sure, you are entitled to your own opinion. But many people don't, that could be why Donald Trump is gaining so much popularity.

And the US has done awful things. But that's completely irrelevant.

And the US has done awful things. But that's completely irrelevant.

Ah, so you're saying its an act of revenge then? I don't think that hardly matters. A life lost is a life lost, whether it was for faith or for revenge. They are here to kill and kill they do, but you don't care about that - let them come in and kill us!!!

Edited 1/9/2016 03:25:35

And here comes the latest news as I was writing...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390894/Gunmen-killed-shooting-European-tourists-Egypt.html

Are you a retard? I was talking about Panda's attempt to move the conversation to country morality measuring.

I was talking about Panda's attempt to move the conversation to country morality measuring.

+ A ton. It's great to see other people realize how pointless the international morality contest is. Every major country has done so many horrible things in their history that it becomes redundant to debate which is more evil than the other.

^ISIS wins either way with that refugee topic, unfortunate to say.

If we let refugees in, we are undoubtedly letting in sleeper cells from ISIS and maybe other terrorist groups. They're making it in from the Mexican border, already (Venezuela is buddy-buddy with I think Afghanistan. If not Afghan, then another; notify me if I'm wrong, here).

If we don't let them in, and maybe shut down our borders to Islamic countries or maybe to all countries for a bit, we won't be letting in Islamic terrorists (willingly), but our actions will be seen as straight up hatred towards all Muslims and ISIS will get more recruits. gg...

...Which is why we need to take ALL citizens from Syria and Iraq, bomb the two countries to nothing, rebuild the countries, put the citizens back, and aid them until they can function on their own again!

Edited 1/9/2016 03:35:09

Who is Panda anyway?

And MGSB, we haven't agreed on many things, but as Eklipse said, thank you for pointing out that stupid moral d*ck measuring contest.

Pulsey,

Perhaps I should reverse the question, so you can see the argument from another perspective. Should a country continue admitting massive number of refugees, fully aware that a statistical few are here to cause with the sole intent to cause terror and kill in the country? Admit them when they have no ability at all to determine their status? And what happens when attacks like Paris inevitably strike? That was only by 9 people, at least 2 of which, I believe, came in disguised as a refugee. How else would you as a national leader treat this crisis? Business as usual, and just clean up when disaster strikes?

The whole Refugees debate has nothing to do with what Trump said, he said he would ban any Muslim to enter in America, if Trump was referring to the refugees while speaking about Muslims, Gosh he is dumber than I thought, first of all a great part of refugees aren't even Muslims, some are atheists but a great part of them are also Christians (Syriac and Assyrian Orthodox, Maronites, and many other currents representing 15% of the whole Syrian population), and from this perspective few of us noticed that what Trump said is many times worse compared to this petition, this petition is about banning one man proffering racist messages, I consider him as bad as Marine Le Pen, and I already said if Britain made a petition against her like for Trump I would congrulate them again.
On the other hand, Trump wants to ban 1/3 of Humanity, you still don't see what is worse and the thing about why this petition was made?

Furthermore, I am not sure where you found your numbers. As a Chinese citizen, I have not heard of anybody openly declaring their intention to 'annihilate the Japanese,', much less than 10%, which amounts to 140 million people. Nor have I heard of any Chinese carrying out fatal terror attacks in Japan to avenge for WW2. The same goes for the other examples you gave.

the 10% was randomly stated I admit it, this was just to give you an example and explain you about that extremist fringe that you could find in any country.

About China, I went to China for 6 months as an exchange student, not Hong Kong, not ROC, but People's Republic of China. I was in Wuhan, doing an exchange program between Bordeaux University and Wuhan Daxue, there you are in the Heartland of China, Wuhan is also a very special city, where many CHinese revolutions started (example the revolution of october 1911, that overthrow the Emperor, see Wuchang Uprising, Wuchang, nowadays a district of Wuhan). I had even teachers that were talking about news all the time, and trying to explain us (we understood only half of what they said as it was in Wuhanhua or with a strong South West Chinese accent mixing the tone accents, the L and the N and the S and the SH), saying that China was right about taking back Taiwan from the Americans and remove them from Asia! (this is what he believes) He also explained that all the difficulties that currently China faces or faced in the Past was due to Japan and his American ally, and I know many people in China have the same ideology, most of them are old, this teacher was himself quite old but I am sure that my 10% is not that far from reality and might be higher, I will try to find any sources to support this but I know surveys in China aren't very popular, you must know why. But just see the massive demonstrations against Japan that occur from time to time there.
I also know people of Hong Kong do not see themselves as the Mainland Chinese do, so saying you are a Chinese citizen do not mean you share their "culture" (by culture I mean point of view mainly, I will not deny you are a Chinese citizen, but Hong Kong is quite different, one thing proving what I say is that Mainland Chinese cannot go to HK that easily, and even for foreigners like me I needed to have another Visa to go there and about culture if a foreigner talks in Mandarin people will see you angrily and reply to you in English, for them there is only one Chinese: Cantonese, and this has been experienced IRL)

It has absolutely nothing to do with culture or history...
It is all about action. I'm sure many Americans are indeed racist or indeed harbour prejudice towards Muslims or arabs, but why is this so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

How many lives have been lost in attacks all these years, carried out by people who have swore allegiance to various Islamic groups, be it Al-Qaeda or ISIS? How many people have died in 2015 in the name of Jihad? Comparatively when was the last time a Western citizen carried out a terrorist attack in Egypt in the name of Christianity? When was the last time American citizens attacked a Libyan embassy?And yet you still blame people for believing that some Muslims are 'extremists' and 'violent people'?

And funny that you talk about Muslim terrorists all the time, guess what yesterday a terrorist attack occurred in the US and was led by a very American guy (who as every American has the chance and the right to hold a gun to defend himself! Now see what he did..), this American guy known as Edward Archer, attacked and fired 13 shots against a Police Officer, saying this was for ISIS... This guy isn't Muslim, I am almost sure he never went to any Mosque at all, saying "Allahu Akbar!" does not make you a good Muslim at all, this guy is just a retarted American wannabe terrorist, you see the difference here? I hope you do. If not I will explain it to you again hoping you finally get it: People fighting for ISIS aren't Muslims, they are sick people, people having trauma, people that should go to medical facilities, and a large part of you confuse the Muslims with these terrorists, what I wrote about each nation having a fringe of extremists is right, in any nations of the Muslim World you have extremists (6-10% as you stated), the same applies for America, France and any other countries in the World. That's why admitting what Trump said about the Muslims is a total hypocrisy and stupidity.

Read this: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/Police-probe-man-s-claim-he-shot-officer-in-6747338.php

I don't know if you know Muslims in real life, or if you have any Muslim friends (perhaps you know some Hua Chinese?), if you had some I guarantee you would not have this opinion at all, again you are confusing everything and putting the entire Muslim community as terrorists just because a very small minority supports the terrorists.

And to make it clear: I am not Muslim nor Christian (despite having been raised in a very Catholic family), I am not religious.

I agree with you, the US has created a power vacuum thanks to the disposal of leaders like Hussein and Gaddafi. I'm not sure what point you are trying to say here, and besides, I'm not American anyway.

Yep, the point was about you saying that the Syrians believed ISIS was created by America, and stating this was stupid, it is not entirely stupid since ISIS started to exist because of the US invasion failure in Iraq.

Bu hao yisi, wo hai yiwei ni shi Meiguoren (sorry cannot type in Chinese with my current old computer..)

Edited 1/9/2016 11:34:18

Eklipse,

The fact that America did something stupid in the past does not excuse the British doing something similarly stupid. It's also irrelevant to this conversation.

Similarly stupid? did I say it was similar, what America did in 2003 was more irrelevant than what we are currently discussing about, banning products (consequently being against the very principles of international trade, what a shame for the nation that defines itself as the paramount of capitalism and liberalism) and threatening a country for being independent from American influence (here I meant this because the US took measures to punish any nations not following the orders of Washington), is worse than banning someone considered as dangerous for his racist and xenophobic comments, Trump is indeed a far right politician for Europeans (you stated America isnt Europe, you are totally right on that, as we do not see one politician the same way it seems, anyway this is another topic again), if Marine was elected in France i am sure the British and even the Americans would start petitioning against her, and this is perfectly understandable, far right policies never proved to work, were catastrophic and dangerous for the few times we saw them implemented. NOw I'm sure some of you will say Trump is not a far right politician,m that he isn't racist, but you know Marine Le Pen leader of the Front National (French far right party once linked with Vichy France which was allied with Nazi Germany...) never stated to ban the Muslims to enter the French soil, what Trump said here (that's why I talk so much about it), is something some Far right parties leader never evoked (Le Pen or Nigel Farage), this is why this petition has sense, because Trump has been considered in Britain for what he is, a politician dealing with far rights ideals.

What about it? Stop trying to shift the focus. What the U.S has or has not done is totally irrelevant to this conversation. This is about a British petition which is extremely harmful to freedom of speech if allowed to set a precedent.

I wasnt shifting at all the focus, since I was answering Darth Darth comment who himself said the US also banned people, cant you read the whole discussion in here?

Eklipse, you may think I am a total anti American guy, but I am not, I admire your nation, culturally speaking mainly, again in some other threads I defended the US, but in other because you know as a human being, I have an opinion, I was against it, like here right know. I participated in this thread but not immediately, I said nothing, waiting to see how the debate was going, seeing SirSalty was quite alone in here (not really surprising again as most of the debaters here are Americans excepted Pulsey), with people outraged for really nothing, now you talk about shifting the focus how do you consider these first contributions? (let's just see only 2 random comments):
- "Congratulations, you are HItler-lite!" (Darth, very balanced comments),
- "Considering the US has funded many governments before, such as Western Europe with the Marshall Plan and sent food aid to countries to places like North Korea." (FalconGuy)

What I am denouncing here is you and some of you guys (like you Eklipse and Conservative), not able to balance your statements about your own country, the truth is I never saw you here able to have a objective discussion about the US, each time someone was talking about the US misbehaviors (and any country did bad things, I am the first to recognize this about France), you are not able to put into question it, you will never recognize for example the consequences of the disastrous invasion in Iraq (see the older thread about this), nor recognize ISIS greatly benefited from the US indirectly once they weakened a whole region after the war, many many things again. Conservative is not better here, you think I am the one attacking the US, but Conservative, just look about what you wrote in the other threads about guns, you are stating false things about European countries, and I replied to you once I read the utterly stupid things you were saying, I did not started this again.

It's starting to appear as if your main defense in any international debate is to shift blame about how evil the United States is, regardless of if that actually impacts the current discussion or not.

If you think I shifted the whole discussion alone, then again read up the whole threads, thanks before talking rubbish about me.

Has the United States banned people for stupid reasons in the past? Yes. Do I support that? Absolutely not. If this topic were actually about the U.S banning people over petty reasons than I would certainly express my opposition to those events. However, this isn't about the U.S. It's about a U.K petition.

Yes I totally agree on that, and again it was in answer to Darth Darth comments, notice also my list about the people banned by the US is not even 10% of my whole replies to Darth and Pulsey.

Secondly, you should be directing that statement towards those who've signed this petition. Banning a foreign politician for saying something you don't like certainly doesn't count as focusing on your own affairs.

I am sure petitions are created each day in the UK about everything, but you see things most of you forgot guys is that the one requiring the attention of the British parliament is the one that had the most votes. Now why did the Trump petition had that much votes? There is a good reason for this, it's because Trump is part of the politicians conveying extremist messages, this has nothing to do with Conservatism, Conservatives are pondered, Trump isnt. Trump is a copy of Marine le Pen or Nigel Farage, and stated worse things compared to those 2 who are self appointed far right leaders! You got it now?

And again about Jingoists, I must apologize because I myself must have been offensive, particularly towards Darth, here I was nonetheless not talking about you Darth, I know you have more balanced opinions I know it as I read some of your posts in other threads about other subjects dealing with the US.
I also may have been harsh here, but some people like the Conservative or Major now ("asshole"? wtf guy?) are attacking me without restriction rudely with gratuitous insults, Conservative this is quite hypocrite from you, if you felt attacked by my later comments, I was just as rudely answering to your previous comment (get a life, Seriously go home and read some books on international law), so do not even try to be innocent, I took it quite bad it too, nevertheless all I wanted was a debate not people talking rubbish to each other, I hope this is clear now.

But isn't this British petition that you're heavily encouraging all about judging Trump for his views and words? You're digging yourself into a hole now.

I dont think I am, I was pointing out some of you here having clear pro nationalist and even unrelated comments about this petition, this was a simple answer about some comments, not the subject here, but again you omitted many other comments I made about the very topic.

Edited 1/9/2016 12:29:24

And again about Jingoists, I must apologize because I myself must have been offensive, particularly towards Darth, here I was nonetheless not talking about you Darth, I know you have more balanced opinions I know it as I read some of your posts in other threads about other subjects dealing with the US.

Yeah, I got a little harsh with my last long comment, too. Sorry about that.

So Panda is in support of this because Americas done the stupid thing before, and Eklipse and his alts are not because it's stupid.

Seriously? No apology for me ? XD

Was I just called an alt?

lol that's insulting