I'm not sure why you're assuming that communism inherently produces better products than capitalism. Care to explain?

I can explain why communism doesn't, if that helps. Here goes. Capitalism makes shit products because it makes money. Communism makes even shittier products because there is no reason to make good ones.

I'm not sure why you're assuming that communism inherently produces better products than capitalism. Care to explain?

I dont assume that. I just try to weaken the former argument that low quality is a device of communism/socialism. My example shall only prove, that in specific cases a more social attitude would even increase products quality.

Communism makes even shittier products because there is no reason to make good ones.

Thats wrong. As communism is a hypothesis with the premise of altruism, there would be the perfect reason already been included in the premise, to increase products quality.

Edited 3/28/2016 17:15:11

Im sure I made perfectly clear, that I didnt refer to soviet communism, which wasnt communism at all except by its name. Furthermore I referred to the problems you mentioned, not problems in general.

whats your point?

I was talking about the real-world example of East Germany, not some utopian communist state that has never existed and never will. East Germany was a vassal state of the Soviet Union, so it's an example of Soviet-style communism.

My point is that if you don't want to compare East Germany and West Germany, then compare West Germany and Russia, which has the same problems as East Germany.

still dont get your point.
Of course you can compare east and west germany. But it is simply flawed to compare present east and west germany. furthermore you need to include historical prerequisites. anyways this whole idea of comparison is meaningless, as it has nothing to do with communism!

Edited 3/28/2016 17:21:23

Anyways I believe that a society should have more social (communistic) than capitalistic aspects. In fact a society shall represent the majority instead of favouring an elitist minority.

Yet capitalism is inherently "free". It better reflects the ideals of a democracy by promoting the unmitigated accumulation of capital regardless of gender, ethnicity, race, or sexual orientation. A managed society has much more rigid standards of class and caste. Capitalism favors and rewards those who take risks and display entrepreneurship, while socialism promotes the status quo and tends to be neutral in rewarding advances and business adventurism.

No. Capitalism is better and if you need that explained to you, pick up a history book and read about genocide under Stalin.

STALISNISM ISN'T COMMUNISM YOU HALFWIT PAUGERS

you're the dumbest person I know

get a brain

still dont get your point.

Countries under communism didn't make people more altruistic, it made them more egoistic as a backlash to their unrealistic expectations.

get a brain

Get a frontal lobe.

@Ox = Stalinism is not communism, but its pretty damn close.

"Stalinism is the means of governing and related policies implemented by Joseph Stalin. Stalinist policies in the Soviet Union included state terror, rapid industrialization, the theory of socialism in one country, a centralized state, collectivization of agriculture, cult of personality in leadership, and subordination of interests of foreign communist parties to those of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union—deemed by Stalinism to be the most forefront vanguard party of communist revolution at the time."

Edited 3/28/2016 17:21:38

Thats wrong. As communism is a hypothesis with the premise of altruism, there would be the perfect reason already been included in the premise, to increase products quality.

It's unreasonable to assume that our hypothetical communist society is happening in a perfect world, because that is impossible. It is obviously being discussed as a replacement for capitalism, and thus has to be discussed in a real-world context, just as you're doing for capitalism.

Edited 3/28/2016 17:24:59

JaiBarat your definition of capitalism is pretty naive. Im pretty sure you know better.
Imperator: Your suggestion is kind of dumb. you already said that it is practically impossible. It cant replace any political system under current circumstances.

Edited 3/28/2016 17:28:16

Oh boy , Europeans telling us the wonders of a strong government, like ethnic cleansing and a poorly working economy. We already have too much socialism in the US, enough is enough.

Europeans telling us the wonders of a strong government, like ethnic cleansing and a poorly working economy.

Dont know where you got that image. Probably not in this thread...

Can we all agree communism is impossible? Good.
Now, what would you use instead? The USSR system. It is the next best thing.
Thus, striving for communism results in that, yes? Ok.

The goal of socialism is communism.
Thus, socialism is striving for communism.
Thus, socialism will get closer and closer to the USSR system. Which is a disaster.
Thus, socialism is a disaster.

Transitive property FTW!

Now, what would you use instead? The USSR system. It is the next best thing.

no it is not! your following text is redundant. A dictatorship is the absolute opposite of communism.

Germany, Sweden, Yugoslavia, Poland, the Soviet Union, China, Czechoslovakia, and that's only the real reds. Imperialism, another way of death by government is even worse.

Your telling me the people who wanted communism didn't adopt Stalinism?
Go on. I enjoy learning alternate history

Imperator: Your suggestion is kind of dumb. you already said that it is practically impossible. It cant replace any political system under current circumstances.

It's pointless to compare capitalism in a flawed world to communism in a perfect world, which was more my point. And while Communism is impossible to achieve, Socialism is not.

What you are doing is saying that "Everything is better in communism because everything is perfect". While this is true, the same can be said for practically any ideology, including capitalism, Imperialism, Monarchism, you name it.

The simple fact is, these are not all good ideas just because they work out great in a perfect world. When you discuss these ideas in a real world context, you find that Imperialism results in horrible human rights abuses, and that communism results in a class system, lack of technological advancement, and just generally horribleness.

The reason that capitalism is better is that even in a real world context, it is an awesome system.

Edited 3/28/2016 17:46:20

Better dead than red

Communism is impossible without a transitionary phase of socialism, and it is almost guaranteed it would last long, with no guarantee of success. Governments have to be limited by the people, or freedom will be limited and atrocities are guarenteed, and the amount will be amplified by the strength of the country.

Real communism is cool, but the way to it is too much for it.

good point Major.

Real communism is cool, but the way to it is too much for it.

Its the way not the destination that counts.^^

Imperator. I dont want to replace capitalism with communism. I would rather like to have communistic concepts and ideas in mind to improve a political system. and in the danger of repeating myself: I believe a society should have more social than capitalistic aspects.

Edited 3/28/2016 18:03:35