I am not skipping the debate... you are just bringing in new irrelevant arguments on matters that weren't being discussed in the first place. The first time you post you compared Sanders and Trump on xenophobic/racist remarks, then the next post you also include overreactions, hate speech and demagogia and then you accuse me of 'not staying in the topic?'. I don't deny Trump (like every candidate) uses hyperbole, but are we talking about racist remarks here?

So back to the orignial point... if you tell me that Trump isn't a racist, then what has he said with 'racist overtones'?

And who is Juq?

(which is actually wrong since exaggeration can also apply to whole sentences and speech constructions

I don't know what you are trying to argue here...

Hyperbole is saying something like 'The weather today is as hot as the Sun'. Obviously you are exaggerating here, you finding the day hot is subjective, someone may find that it is actually not so hot.

An absolute description is something that is non-debatable and not relative. For example, the table is '1 meters tall'.

And so is racist.

You can't be a little racist or very racist. The definition of racist is absolute. If you believe that a certain race is in some aspect superior to another, you are a racist. You can't exaggerate someone's beliefs until they suddenly become a racist.

Edited 4/10/2016 12:08:03

To the OP: as you can see, no one has provided actual examples yet, because there are none. However, this is a good example of if you say a lie enough, people will think it is truth. I doubt Koala has ever watched a Trump rally. He just hears other people say Trump is racist, and he follows suit. I challenge anyone here to give me a quote (a full quote, with context) that is clearly racist.

who is Juq?

You racist bigot.

I am not skipping the debate.

Oh yes you are.

you are just bringing in new irrelevant arguments on matters that weren't being discussed in the first place

Pulsey the hypocrite is back, you are the one who started bringing irrelevant arguments, my own reply was an answer to your own very comments which illustrate perfectly your weird habits to derail a topic everytime you disagree with someone, bringing something irrelevant within a thread, like you did here with Juq. Hence your words mean nothing when your actions are the complete opposite.

if you tell me that Trump isn't a racist, then what has he said with 'racist overtones'?

Are you illiterate in someway? Did you miss or were unable to read my whole paragraph about politicians and their bad habits to neglect their own ideals to attract a particular electorate?

Hyperbole is saying something like 'The weather today is as hot as the Sun'.

Ahahah. Well you just confirmed you do not know what a hyperbole is. Your example "The weather today is as hot as the Sun" could be defined as an analogy or more precisely a simile (as you use the connecting words "as ... as"). A hyperbole is the very use of exaggeration in a speech, a figure of speech Trump likes to use a lot, so again you were wrong, and Juq here was right. Stop being a stubborn person for once.

You can't be a little racist or very racist. The definition of racist is absolute.

Of course you can be a little racist or very racist, there is a different kind of people, some inclined to agree with some racist views but not everything, and some others with highly racist opinions, this can be for example illustrated with the political spectrum (far right and different tendencies within it).
Again, if you are inventing your own definition of racism, this would be only good for you and your little ego I suppose, but sadly for you nobody will really take what you say into consideration or as something worth it. And you keep skipping the debate and derailing it, the question is not about Trump (or someone else) being racist or not, the debate here is about these racist statements he made or not, not about if Trump is personally/inherently racist, if you do not get again the nuance of it or why you are out of context, I guess you are a hopeless case after all.

And who is Juq?

Juq is Жұқтыру, it is more or less the transliteration of his first 3 letters in Cyrillic, the complete transliteration being "Juqtyru" which means "Infection" in Kazakh (Juq himself could tell you more about his own name here I guess), which is more correct than calling him simply as X or Xyk.

I doubt Koala has ever watched a Trump rally.

I sadly watched a Trump rally once (after all I had to see who was the guy many Americans were prone to vote for) and I will never do it again.

He just hears other people say Trump is racist, and he follows suit.

The argument of the weak.

I challenge anyone here to give me a quote (a full quote, with context) that is clearly racist.

And I challenge you to prove me his speeches were not tinged with racist/xenophobic/hate conveyed messages. Easy to attack others without any worth arguments at all in your own post.

As usual, Angry Koala ignores my entire argument and just repeats himself, whilst going personal and calling me a hypocrite, stubborn, illiterate and a hopeless case with al little ego, and dismissing my opinion as something not 'worth it.'

I'm just going to go through very briefly because it really isn't worth the effort

Pulsey the hypocrite is back, you are the one who started bringing irrelevant arguments,

Where is *your* argument then? Where are these 'racist statements' you keep talking about?

Are you illiterate in someway? Did you miss or were unable to read my whole paragraph about politicians and their bad habits to neglect their own ideals to attract a particular electorate?

Calls me an illterate, then quotes one of my questions and fails to provide an answer, but links me to one of his paragraph which contains no answer either.

Your example "The weather today is as hot as the Sun" could be defined as an analogy or more precisely a simile

It is both a hyperbole and a simile. Hyperbole is merely the application of an extreme exaggeration to argue a point. It is ironic that someone with broken English lectures me on literary devices.

Of course you can be a little racist or very racist, there is a different kind of people, some inclined to agree with some racist views but not everything, and some others with highly racist opinions

How so? If you believe in some 'racist' views, how doesn't that make you a racist? If you commit a small crime, doesn't it make you a criminal? A petty thief is a criminal, as is a mass murderer. One is of course worse than the other, but if you are talking about a blanket term here, than it is absolute.

Again, if you are inventing your own definition of racism,

Its funny, because on the first page I was accusing 'Juq' and liberals like you of changing the definition of racism to satisfy their own political agenda.

nd you keep skipping the debate and derailing it, the question is not about Trump (or someone else) being racist or not, the debate here is about these racist statements he made or not, not about if Trump is personally/inherently racist,

This is correct, and for the third time in a row, you have yet to bring any of these so called 'racist statements' on the table.

Very sad arguing with you, always the same.

Edited 4/10/2016 13:47:07

I challenge anyone here to give me a quote (a full quote, with context) that is clearly racist.


And I challenge you to prove me his speeches were not tinged with racist/xenophobic/hate conveyed messages. Easy to attack others without any worth arguments at all in your own post.

There is so much open and direct hypocrisy here it is laughable.

You say 'easy to attack others with any worth arguments' and yet...

You attack Trump for making 'racist statements' and bring no arguments at all on the subject.

And look the title of this thread is about 'racist statements' but you talk about xenophobic and hate conveyed message too. And you accuse me of derailing the topic.

Edited 4/10/2016 13:53:34

Yup. Kellen got what he wanted. He wanted to get a bunch of people to call each other hypocrites and idiots and he succeeded.

Congrats.

As usual, Angry Koala ignores my entire argument and just repeats himself,

Was I the one ignoring entire arguments? Thought it was you, after all if I had to repeat myself it is just because you keep ignoring my paragraphs and keep not answering me or skipping the confrontation with irrelevant arguments. About you, I have the feeling I am talking to a deaf person really, or you have at least a selective brain which cannot simply read some sentences, hence your biased answers.

Where is *your* argument then? Where are these 'racist statements' you keep talking about?

About those "racist statements" we had time to debate about it in many other threads, like the ones about the Muslim ban or the Mexican hateful speech (something Juq reminded it to you but you kept nonetheless to skip it everytime anyway), your only argument here was to say "oh look, Sanders also had a racist statement", which is true, but this is not the right topic unless you are unable to read the very title of this thread.

Calls me an illterate, then quotes one of my questions and fails to provide an answer, but links me to one of his paragraph which contains no answer either.

Boohoo, poor Pulsey not my fault if you are really unable to read an entire paragraph. I gave you an answer you chose to ignore, I told you some politicians purposely choose to neglect their ideals and state things they do not believe personally, Trump is the very politician I was referring to, he is not inherently racist nor he is against abortion (like lately since he changed a lot of opinion like a wind vane!) nonetheless to attract some electors he would take the risk to go against his very ideals, which is a very repugnant behavior.

Btw, "illterate" is usually spelled I-L-L-I-T-E-R-A-T-E. For a native speaker I would start to worry about your own grammar mistakes.

It is both a hyperbole and a simile. Hyperbole is merely the application of an extreme exaggeration to argue a point. It is ironic that someone with broken English lectures me on literary devices.

Let me explain you this now, a hyperbole is the deliberate use of exaggeration to describe something, as for example in the sentence, "this bag weighs a ton." Simile and hyperbole can often be confused, because hyperbole sometimes fancifully compares its subject to something else. The key difference is that hyperbole often makes claims that no reasonable person would take literally. About your quote, if the phrase is used to describe something more thoroughly, it is probably a simile, even if it compares two unlike things. Again this shows how much you do not master the different figures of speech since with your very example you were unable to provide any pure hyperbole.
About my "broken English" I am not the one unable to spell English words correctly. So again insulting a non native speaker whereas you are yourself unable to provide a perfect English is the height of hypocrisy and the ultimate ridiculousness...
In French we have a saying for this "L'injure est l'argument du faible, c'est l'aveu de reddition." (more or less in my "Broken English" but I guess you will get it : "Insult is the argument of the weakest one, the confession of surrender").
And the very example of ignorance Pulsey: literary devices are also taught in French, actually most of the modern figures of speech (in French "Figures de style") you can encounter, were patterned from French scholars of the Renaissance (see La Pléiade) and revived it from Classical Latin and Greek works on Rhetorical figures. So no need to know English to have a sufficient knowledge on these figures of speech, in France these rhetorical figures are also taught (perhaps even more thoroughly) and this is also the case in other non English speaking countries.

How so? If you believe in some 'racist' views, how doesn't that make you a racist? If you commit a small crime, doesn't it make you a criminal? A petty thief is a criminal, as is a mass murderer. One is of course worse than the other, but if you are talking about a blanket term here, than it is absolute.

Someone believing in some racist views is racist, this wasn't the question, but he is nonetheless less racist than someone having more racist views, this is pure logic. About your example of crime, there are petty criminals (such as poachers and smugglers) and high profile criminal cases such as large scale banditry, serial killers or terrorists. Again your own attempt to illustrate your argument with an example (here criminal) miserably failed.

Its funny, because on the first page I was accusing 'Juq' and liberals like you of changing the definition of racism to satisfy their own political agenda.

The one changing it is you, again another example of your one-sided views, and if someone is against it, this person is without question wrong, I come with a new term for your very weird form of logic : "Pulseyesque Logic".

This is correct, and for the third time in a row, you have yet to bring any of these so called 'racist statements' on the table.

Very sad arguing with you, always the same.

And I will recall it to you again: we discussed about his racist statements in many other threads (Mexican hateful speech, the Muslim ban, etc.) and as you are clearly the most stubborn person I ever met in this forum (do not take it as a compliment), you will always neglect it and you won't listen to reason because you cannot conceive something opposing your views would be true. This is why I said earlier you were an obvious hopeless case.

I'll start with the petty things...

Insult is the argument of the weakest one, the confession of surrender".

Is this why you have been calling me ' hypocrite, stubborn, illiterate and a hopeless case with a little ego'?

Btw, "illterate" is usually spelled I-L-L-I-T-E-R-A-T-E. For a native speaker I would start to worry about your own grammar mistakes.

It's a spelling mistake, not a grammar mistake. I spelt it correctly in the first paragraph, but of course you conveniently ignore that. It was a typo. I am not a native speaker of English, you knew this very well, but of course you conveniently chose to forget that too.

The key difference is that hyperbole often makes claims that no reasonable person would take literally

The temperature of the Sun reaches up to 15 million Celsius.
Is the weather today as hot as the Sun then? You are stepping on your own toes.

I am not the one unable to spell English words correctly.

So you've never made a single typo on this forum? Please...

About those "racist statements" we had time to debate about it in many other threads, like the ones about the Muslim ban or the Mexican hateful speech

And which I already told you, we debunked in this thread. Juq admitted it wasn't a racist statement on the first page, see for yourself. As for the Muslim ban, have you got an explanation on which part is racist? I'm not sure which quote you are referring to, you just say something vague and expect me to produce a counterargument. Then when I do you accuse me of derailing the topic, expecting me to read your mind (which is remarkably closed!)

Boohoo, poor Pulsey not my fault if you are really unable to read an entire paragraph. I gave you an answer you chose to ignore, I told you some politicians purposely choose to neglect their ideals and state things

The question was what has Trump said with racist overtones, the answer you gave me was some waffle that politicians often change their rhetoric to fit their voting bloc, which is true but has nothing to do with the question.

Someone believing in some racist views is racist, this wasn't the question, but he is nonetheless less racist than someone having more racist views, this is pure logic.

And I've already said no, racist is an absolute description, but never mind, these are semantics...

About your example of crime, there are petty criminals (such as poachers and smugglers) and high profile criminal cases such as large scale Mexican banditry, serial killers or terrorists.

That is very true. Are there petty racists and high profile racists then?

You still haven't given any exact quote with any actual explanation on how Trump has produced a 'racist statement'. Saying vague things like Mexican hateful speech, the Muslim ban, etc) isn't going to get you out of this!

Like I said, arguing you is rarely arguing about the topic on hand, we have to get past all sorts of petty topics, accusations of 'truncation' or 'deraling your thread' and then personal attacks from you

For the 4th time, actual quote and explanation please!

Edited 4/10/2016 16:01:25

Juq admitted it wasn't a racist statement on the first page, see for yourself.

Never happened. I said today's meaning of race includes any cultural thing.

"Islam hates us."
"We're going to protect Christianity, and I can say that. I don't have to be politically correct. We're going to protect it."

You are either a racist or you are not.

Yeah, and there's different levels of being racist. To avoid some group, that is a little, but to shoot up some group, that is loads.

Bernie Sanders makes a racist remark when he says 'White people don't know whats its like to be poor'. It is well established that both white/caucasian and black/negro people are individual races. He is suggesting that the former type of people is unable to experience particular sufferings (poverty) simply because of their race. This is of course, untrue, as there are many poor white people, and therefore racist. Indeed, probably the most racist thing said on the entire campaign.

Ha ha ha. Is Sanders above having skinhues? Also, he's statistically right, with far less proportionism. Whiteskins are generally wealthier and less poor. If you want to go and call that racist, though, then there's no doubt that "When Mexico sends its people, they're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." is racist, against the Mexican nationality.

Exaggeration is sometimes a problem for English liberalists

So you do acknowledge its a problem then? You seem to be encouraging the problem by how loosely you've thrown the word racist in this thread. You called Trump's comment 'more likely just racist' before taking it back a few posts later!

Did you really not read, what, several more words ahead? It's a problem in the English tongue, and from it, meanings change sometimes. Race is now an outdated word (means specie, as if blackskins are different species. Human race.), and now racist just means anyone discriminating on cultural things. Also, I took nothing back, just wanted to see what that would make Trump, if he wouldn't be racist.

Edited 4/10/2016 16:20:30

Is this why you have been calling me ' hypocrite, stubborn, illiterate and a hopeless case with a little ego'?

This was in answer to your own insults, I know I have a major flaw which is to have an impulsive temperament, not refraining enough, but this also applies to you I suppose, hence my statement. And in response of your collection of words randomly gathered "hopeless case with a little ego" wasn't something I stated at all, you just pathetically assembled two part of things I said together. As for "stubborn" or "hypocrite" they aren't insults at all, so sorry if I offended you but if the truth hurts you, you should stop participating in online forums because many people will attack you in your own flaws you know. The only "insult" I would concede is "illiterate" but it was in answer to your own pathetic attack about my "broken English", this is the perfect example of awful reasoning when someone has nothing worth it to say or lost an argument. Good work of misinformation anyway, do you consider a political career? This would very promising. I understand better now why you support Trump so much.

I am not a native speaker of English, you knew this very well, but of course you conveniently chose to forget that too.

No, I did not know you weren't a native speaker of English, everything can be said in an online forum anyway, the only thing I know from you is that you are currently living in Australia (so you could be possibly an Aussie guy), and that earlier you were in Hong Kong (as I told you I also used to live in Wuhan, this does not prove at all I am Chinese, just a foreigner living in another country, and btw, in Hong Kong I know many people have English as their native language so this would not invalid the fact you aren't a native speaker at all Pulsey), and the only time I tried to communicate in Chinese (since you said you knew Mandarin) with you, you did not replied to me, but anyway it would be a great pleasure to discuss with you in this language, even if I admit that my fluency in this language is even more limited than my "Broken English".

It's a spelling mistake, not a grammar mistake.

The fact that your orthography sucks, does not invalidate the fact that you are unable to write or type perfectly English. From someone attacking another person because of his bad English, this is quite ridiculous.

So you've never made a single typo on this forum? Please...

I would not have considered it if you did not attacked me on my broken English. Really this is giving the stick to be beaten with. I personally try to avoid spelling mistakes since one of my main goal and my presence in this forum is to improve my English, I gladly accept people correcting me or saying something is wrong in my sentence, but I will not accept people insulting others like you did without any other reasons than derailing (again) a discussion.

And which I already told you, we debunked in this thread. Juq admitted it wasn't a racist statement on the first page, see for yourself. As for the Muslim ban, have you got an explanation on which part is racist? I'm not sure which quote you are referring to, you just say something vague and expect me to produce a counterargument. Then when I do you accuse me of derailing the topic, expecting me to read your mind (which is remarkably closed!)

Debunked? Juq smartly pointed out that "race" is an outdated notion, the right word for Trump would be "discrimination", he goes further than xenophobia which only defines the fear of the unknown, the stranger, but it is obvious Trump speeches were also tinged with a hateful tone, this is why this goes further than xenophobia. The dimension of "hate" is omitted here. I also noticed you purposely chose to ignore Juq's "frain": Was Hitler racist? I would be curious to hear your answer on it.

The question was what has Trump said with racist overtones, the answer you gave me was some waffle that politicians often change their rhetoric to fit their voting bloc, which is true but has nothing to do with the question.

No. The question was "is Trump racist?" and I explained it to you again and again, I considered he wasn't personally racist (with the example of politicians) but he nonetheless had a very racist/discriminating/hateful/xenophobic tone, and you still do not get the nuance of it, like I said it is like speaking to a deaf person, no matter what you will select what you like and ignore large amounts of paragraph to satisfy your own biased dialectics.

And I've already said no, racist is an absolute description, but never mind, these are semantics...

Like what you will teach me linguistics now? I proved it conclusively "racist" could be used to different degrees, but I guess again your "stubbornness" (oh gosh I insulted you again!) is too strong to admit what is crystal clear and obvious.

That is very true. Are there petty racists and high profile racists then?

Pathetically playing with words and twists them around will not help improving the debate here.

You still haven't given any exact quote with any actual explanation on how Trump has produced a 'racist statement'. Saying vague things like Mexican hateful speech, the Muslim ban

I already told you, we argued many times about it in many earlier threads (alongside Hitschlap, Jai, Teamguns, Juq and all), so what is the point of providing a quote that was already discussed about many times? I already know your opinion on it, and you know mine, and we both know none of us will successfully convince each other.

Ox is also right, Kellen/Numbnuts made this thread to ignite again endless arguments between us I suppose, but we already discussed about it Pulsey, do you really want to start this again and repeat ourselves endlessly about things we said in the past?

Edited 4/10/2016 17:19:40