Why has nobody called this what it is? What we are talking about is a Pay To Win model. This is Warlight, at least in one specific format, becoming Pay To Win.

Pretty much what I was saying, this is by no means a loss for Fizzer, but a loss for us, since we're basically getting stripped out of a feature. Once again, this isn't a big feature nor really one that deserves to be worked around too much, but it's worth pointing out that it's there, and it's being gamed.

When someone was stalling/gaming the ladders, the response was "Blame the system, not the staller".
Yet, here the same people are going after Gargamel?

I'm "blaming" the "system", so no inconsistency here. None of this would have happened if Fizzer was a bit more careful - hell, "more carefulness" solves pretty much everything I could ever complain about WarLight. Given Gargamel actually promoted stuff to "pay a debt" he did not have with the community, while also posting his viewpoint, there's little to blame him for.

The issue is, the opposite is also true. People who were blaming the 'staller' and not the 'system' are now blaming the 'system'. Inconsistency? Nah, just a different one - protecting those they care about, blaming those they don't like. People take sides, that's pretty natural. It is only really a problem when people who are annoyed by others taking sides are also taking sides. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fizzer, post an official response here please so instead of fighting over it the entire community can rally together by knowing what opinion dick we need to suck here

Edited 3/1/2017 03:55:56

FYI, Fizzer said on stream today that it was taken care of and wont happen again.

"[..]so instead of fighting over it the entire community can rally together by knowing what opinion dick we need to suck here"

Lol

can we all just agree that Gargamel is the best player in Warlight? hop off his dick already.

he taught me how to be professional lottery player. if not for him, i'd still be a disgusting low-life strategy-attempting scum, playing diplo games once in awhile not realizing 98% of them are rigged.

Edited 3/1/2017 06:19:11

love how some folks enjoy blaming the system for everything but won't ever bother suggesting how to improve or even looked at uservoice.

I understand and agree with the suggesting ideas to improve but Uservoice for me is a bit pointless because by the time Fizzer gets time to act on the highest demands , The demands would be outdated and when your asking for a big feature you will not have a hope getting it through! This is because Fizzer is for the most part a 1 man team.

For example , I remember Diplomacy truces being top voted on Uservoice. But in 2017 Fizzer will work on Unity , We all know that Unity client is much more important for the game long term but I don't see the point of Uservoice where people can suggest fun ideas , When Fizzer is busy doing the foundations for the website , You would need a separate individual to focus on in-game features.


However about cheaters on all ladders or manipulators this would be my policy,

There will always be rats looking for cheese , The idea for a human to get rid of the rats isn't to get rid of the rats itself but the food source which in his case would be cheese. So you get rid of the cheese bang their gone!

Bringing the idea to WarLight , Manipulators will go to win a trophy by getting #1 source on the ladders or 1st coin leaderboard. In the case of Alhazi to any idiot can see it's cheating or stalling or whatever. Just remove the trophy or ban on ladders (For coin and seasonal ladder , a ban for the next season would be effective)

Stalling at a extreme level it's so blindly obvious ,So why can't there be action on that? At the very minimum ...

Edited 3/1/2017 19:23:11

There is no rule in WL saying that you can't stall. Stalling is considered cheating by a part of the strat community, not by WL itself. You also have to clearly define what is manipulating the ladders. If a team drops out of a ladder because they want to do something else and join back later and get 1st, some people could tax them of cheating when they just wanted to take a break. As long as there are no proper rules against stalling or other "cheating" things (ladders or coin games) and as long as they are not enforced, people can and will do whatever is allowed within the regulations set by WL.

Even in cases of extreme stalling, people are free to surrender when they want even if it is to attain a certain objective in a devious way. Maybe the game itself could force surrender at let's say turn 15 if the incomes ratio would be like 2:1, but such a program wouldn't make the unanimity for everyone. If someone plays RT a game that is supposed to be MD and then stops, he automatically is called a staller but that's intentions we assume the "staller" has, we can't know for sure what his intentions were exactly even if there are strong possibilities that he was indeed stalling.

Edited 3/1/2017 19:47:44

I remember Diplomacy truces being top voted on Uservoice. But in 2017 Fizzer will work on Unity

And the unity version will probably allow for diplomacy truces :p

I'd like to point out that if the system were to stop based off income ratio of 2:1 at turn 15 to prevent stalling then there would be problems with players who have their bonuses broken on that turn, but could still win the game. For example, large stacks already in play.

witch-hunts are rarely known on this site. Apart from a few trollish individuals ... but from the most part most game cheaters and coin riggers get away with their crime. Even the time of their suspension is mediocre. Or sometimes they're accused and given no suspension or warning at all, even when the game creator says they violated the rules. I guess because Fizzer doesn't want people to permanently leave? I've had my own experience when I tried to rig coins with 30 alts. What do I have to say ? I got busted. I got called out. I was publically shamed. Then Fizzer noticed. Gave me a suspension of a mere 10 days. I came back. He had not taken my coins away from me. Hurrah! I win!

Meanwhile the first known coin cheater is still suspended after all this time:

https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=6217236116

Edited 3/1/2017 23:05:44

love how some folks enjoy blaming the system for everything but won't ever bother suggesting how to improve or even looked at uservoice.

Not quite; Plat quite nailed it:

I understand and agree with the suggesting ideas to improve but Uservoice for me is a bit pointless because by the time Fizzer gets time to act on the highest demands , The demands would be outdated and when your asking for a big feature you will not have a hope getting it through! This is because Fizzer is for the most part a 1 man team.

Uservoice is not really effective if upvoted suggestions pile up faster than updates do, so it's hard to rely on Uservoice, specially given since most people who lurk around Uservoice have ran out of votes long ago (I did, and I don't even check Uservoice too often anymore).

Suggestions have been tossed around too many times - in and out of UV - and have not been taken in.

Now, I don't blame Fizzer, since as Plat mentioned it's one guy trying to handle a quite big thing, but sometimes we have to recognise what's wrong even when we don't really have many options on how to fix it. For one, I've suggested using low boot times with Banked time rather than a fixed 3d for the ladder stalling issue.

Finding a link to the Uservoice page is such a pain, few will successfully navigate there. It is more placebo than remedy.

But hey, whatever reduces your fever...

Edited 3/2/2017 00:27:52

I'm curious about this topic, but I'm not sure if I understand it entirely or not.

It looks like there may be some kind of exploit in some fashion that turns some sub-section into a merry romping sandbox where rules and order are a thing of the past and you curb-stomp logic and fairness with the power of Math and the Mighty Infinity Gauntlet. :P

Or not, maybe my interpretation is totally off-base lol.


Look the way I see it is this: The factions involved primarily seem to be Fizzer vs. Gargamel vs. No Mercy.

No Mercy said something about not being able to find people to play with him? I'd like to find some way to enable a larger number of players to have equal opportunity at fun in the sun silly leveling up via coin lottery games, and it seems to me that the best way to accomplish that is to figure out what will make that more fun for people who aren't finding it fun right now.

I am a huge fan of the idea that all games should have cheats and exploits, but in social multiplayer internet games, it's important to get a community agreement on what methods of ''cheats'' are fun what methods of cheats are ''definitely not fun''.

So.....I'm basically asking: "This looks like cheating and this looks like fun, how do I get in, and are we absolutely sure we have to kill it?"

:P

Man, you don't play multiplayer, so you have no chance to get what is going on here. Sorry.
And no, we don't like cheats and exploits. Warlight is intended to be skill based game. This is why "cheater" is the worst accusation you can get here ;)

Except that we can't even agree on a comprehensive definition of cheater or if the actions being discussed here constitute a form of cheating

Plat: unity client will allow for mods from the users, fizzer mentioned the example of advanced diplomacy settings multiple times on the development livestreams. so he is effectively working in that direction.

Uservoice is not really effective if upvoted suggestions pile up faster than updates do, so it's hard to rely on Uservoice, specially given since most people who lurk around Uservoice have ran out of votes long ago (I did, and I don't even check Uservoice too often anymore).

Suggestions have been tossed around too many times - in and out of UV - and have not been taken in.

Now, I don't blame Fizzer, since as Plat mentioned it's one guy trying to handle a quite big thing, but sometimes we have to recognise what's wrong even when we don't really have many options on how to fix it. For one, I've suggested using low boot times with Banked time rather than a fixed 3d for the ladder stalling issue.

regardless of anything, uservoice is still the system in place to collect suggestions from the users on how to improve things, if you don't use it you're just whining. if you want actual change you should contribute using the proper channels.

So what I'm reading is that I need to find Uservoice so I can create a Uservoice entry to make Uservoice easier to find. Got it.