Community's thoughts:
Should this be allowed? Is this legal? If so, then should it be illegal? If not, then why isn't it legal? Is this an ethnic thing to do? How will the standards of WL be affected if this continues to go on? Why didn't X get banned for cheating on my daughter while Y and Z didn't? Where is the consistency on this website? Why isn't life fair? (like it most definitely is all the time)


Fizzer's thoughts:
How practical is it to implement this solution? Is it really worth interrupting my awesome WL development streams that average around 9 viewers each? Do I have enough space to fit this on my road-map or too much effort? Can I get sued for ignoring this problem?

Semice these "awesome streams" are really awesome. If you got questions, you can ask them directly there and also these streams are not exclusively for entertainment purposes but mainly for developing warlight on unity.

#Semice for WarLight police :D

regardless of anything, uservoice is still the system in place to collect suggestions from the users on how to improve things, if you don't use it you're just whining. if you want actual change you should contribute using the proper channels.

I am aware, but then again, as I mentioned, I did use Uservoice for a while. Ran out of votes, switched my votes around multiple times, none of the things that had my vote was ever made into a feature. Sadly, that's true for the vast majority of WL Uservoice users.

I have added suggestions, both in AND out of Uservoice, enough to know it simply doesn't do well due to the developer priority being somewhere else, and the fact Fizzer can only do this much, so only his priority (the infamous "immediate roadmap") gets pulled off.

Don't get me wrong, I love the unity client and new features, and Fizzer is extra-friendly while streaming, answers most stuff very quickly and such, but he's simply incapable of making everything we point him to. The reason I post on threads such as this pointing at the system is to, at the very least, mitigate drama over someone who doesn't really deserve to get heat for something that could've been long solved.

That was Rento's case, and now it's Gargamel's. That's the very least I can do not to end up having most players handling a blacklist bigger than the daily active base of WarLight, which essentially is where a game ends being dormant and servers closed.

Ive seen this type of stuff kill games before.

Enjoyable discussion that I decided to click on for some reason. Fun comments.

Uservoice - LOL. Is that still a thing? I get why Fizzer started it but it was always effectively useless. I don't care as I am just a casual player and I just take what WL supplies. For 6-7 years I've been able to adapt to every change in the game to my satisfaction, knock wood that continues.

Seems to me that if someone's gaming any part of the system, that should be impermissible. No need to penetrate to the twelfth level of analysis about it, really. I'm not sure what the enjoyment is in doing so, either, but then I also don't get people who cheat at online chess. :shrug:

Semice, you're hilarious, dude. (Meant in a good way - truly funny stuff.)

Just an FYI fizzer told them to stop...

Fizzer told them to stop giving him money? - you serious?

Interesting topic indeed. My Warlight-Forum search skills did not provide any previous threads about such practice - but I hardly doubt it was recently discovered and practised by only them? Quite an obvious "clitch" to achieve slight advantage with minimal costs to reap a better prize.

I never understood anyways how someone can have trust in Coin Leader-board at all? You can easily play with your friends, other Location/PC alts and just last minute transfer/surrender to increase one accounts "coins won". As long as the 10% cost does not exceed the benefit - this is relatively rational behaviour in economic terms.

Whether it benefits Fizzer in long-run, is profitable is not a concern players who use this practice. And if Fizzer wanted, he would have built different system - this flaw seems so obvious (and maybe even deliberate) just to increase the last minute - high-prize coin-transfer games.

Is it Legal? So common argument here, but does really someone in administration cares about small turnover PC-game with marginal profits? I doubt that, as long as its not used for money laundering and taxes are payed orderly. No one cares how fair it is.

I have never seen anyone walk up to casino host/owner and ask that: "Hey, I can count cards - is it okey for me to play Black-Jack here?". You just play and try to get away with cash till they figure it out!

@Rento
- If this kills the coin-system and maybe the game. Would it not be better to know it before, than later when some have invested their time/money in the game? Secondly, lets assume you achieve what you want, they stop, would not there be others to do the same - this is so obvious trick after-all. System should fixed, problem fixed - you cannot keep punishing after each season new group of players for this.

Edited 3/6/2017 13:10:41

mod being an elitist prick again i see

I think the conclusion here is nullify (guilty), for those of you who are American, the mere glance at this post can stop you standing on the jury at an upcoming case, innocent nullify only applies when a juror agrees that the crime has been committed but doesn't believe the criminal should be punished, in this case it is guilty nullify, where the player has done nothing against the law but they should be punished.

If Fizzer told them to stop then there's no point in going futher into this, is it?

long term this would not benefit fizzer or the game... I think fizzer made the right decision by stopping it because it makes the game more user friendly rather than reward the cheaters with achievements and money.

@Rento

Wasn´t the contrary that I tried to explain. If it takes only community-pressure (if it was the case) to make Fizzer act, then it proves how little Fizzer cares about it. Debated many times and quite obvious that each game-maker has profits in mind - but if they act as a last resort due to community accusations, then how on earth you trust the system? Especially when such practice is simply being pointed with a finger and asked to stop? Apology for the bad analogy, but to me it seems very like a situation, where a case of corruption is being followed by only a warning.

Does this really set a standard or prohibitive example for others, hell no! If warning satisfies someone in this case, where a group of players abused the system (probably according to game rules) how to get high rank in Coin Leader-Board: what prevents others doing same? Even as most cases the group losses exceed benefits - at least in Coin/money terms. The gain can be measured in points maybe - which are worthless.

Well this reminds an old English proverb that has come to new light due to recent use in a movie: "There is honour among thieves".

If it takes only community-pressure (if it was the case) to make Fizzer act, then it proves how little Fizzer cares about it.

You really think like that? If Fizzer ignored it, people would say that he does not care about it. Fizzer told them to stop, people still say that he does not care about it. If Fizzer banned them, people would complain about banhammer again. Man, you really can't please everyone.

what prevents others doing same? Even as most cases the group losses exceed benefits - at least in Coin/money terms.

You got an answer. It's hardly profitable, only under special circumstances (win a season with far less than 40.000 coins won). I don't believe people will storm the coin ladder now to game it this way. I believe many players would leave the coin ladder if Gargamel continued to game the ladder this way. Rational calculation => the result would be bad.

But that's MY opinion, and it shouldn't matter now. If Fizzer took action against them, that means that the ladder is not supposed to be played this way.

Edited 3/6/2017 18:46:51

I don´t blame Gargamel at all, he is just smart fellow that he used such loophole. The problem lies somewhere else. What I want to state, is that inherently Fizzer wants (probably) the system to stay the same. Why? He pays 90$ end of each seasons. And the surrender with 10% loss allows groups to raise the win amount and race highest win amount. I am not going to do the calculations, because they are quite obvious. The 1nd and 2nd place together offer 65$ if the absolute amount lost between such transfer is smaller than that, then you profit + other coin games you play (hopefully with positive turnover).

Warning actually seems pretty much doing nothing as I tried to point out. I hardly see warning as action. Because the point of thread was, someone lost due to that! IMHO

No, people wont storm, if they have some sense left. Maybe only 2 or 3 groups play this 1 time and then they should realise the internal dilemma -> but such systems, Game Theoretically are built for 2 participants/Teams of player. And when played repeatedly (presuming equal investment and skill) should balance it out. BUT this kills the ladder, drives out other people.

Now we have reached to point, where such behaviour is not tolerated - allegedly. Lets say, now its only fair game, fair wins/losses and no coin-transfers! At moment 1st rank has 7249 and 2nd rank 5520 coins won. The incentive is still there, but not public, lets assume in few hours the Coin Ladder closes. The underdog has incentive to win a game just ~2000 coins to beat current leader and take increased prize of 15 $. You can stall such game for a days or even a week. The problem is still in the System. And people are emotional/rational. They just try to hide such behaviour knowing its not tolerated.

I don´t have a solution for that, just stating that what I see. Same applies to ladders and deliberate deflation of ratings (I think that´s how its called).

But I am interested to see, if any names on Ladder change and what will be the required winning amounts now.

Edited 3/6/2017 19:34:20

you can catch me on the leaderboard :)

and if anyone wants to invite me to coin games PLEASE DO I love coinsss

anyone playing this game to make money is a dumbass go out and get a real job

@Darb1114

Do you honestly believe someone is trying to make money here? Its just gambling in a bit more strategic environment. And you do not see anyone making enough cash in leader-board that actually pays for your living, do you? Unless you can make away with 1$/per day.

The only game that offered near 50% pay-off theoretically was Black-Jack, but even there the rules have changed and not for the benefit for players, because the Black-Jack strategy charts can be found nowadays everywhere, and with just a little work you can learn them by heart and perform them without triggering the dealers suspicion. And if you can combine this with Card-counting, its is tho make profit - but getting caught is quite easy that also and getting banned from Casinos.

Since I've read only now and I can't stop laughing at your accuses about how I have taken the gold throphy (1vs1 ladder) I would answer at:

Rento: "

It beats even Belzebu playing against his multiple alts on 1v1 ladder, since he just got the trophy and left.

"

First of all you should know that for every ladder the are rating and ranks graphs that exactly say to you how many times you have been #1 and how many days you hold it.......these graphs are public and anyone can check it, just take a look at mine and you will see that I have been #1 multiple times , exactly 2..... the first time in a period where the points and trophies system had not yet been invented , the gold thophy just appeared a lot of months later.....and the second time I have been #1 for many days(21) before to quit.... so I really do not understand what do you mean with :"

......he just got the trophy and left.

,clearly false.

I'm also interested in know who are these "multiple alts" that allowed me to have the #gold trophy!.......since none of the players who I beat was Italian as me......if you are referring at thanatos, in my second run when I already got the trophy, just because we are both italian friends and I have confirmed it in a sarcastic way after have gain from this victory 1 or being generous 2 points ,his rank was very low, you should probably know that my rating was over 300 points over the second in rank.......and try to imagine how many points I could have if I had delayed the whole amount of losses as you do , instead to surrender at the first one.....probably hundreds more.

We can discuss hours about who among us has had a well-deserved gold trophy.....but obviously
you are another forum troll who just try to delegitimize others to justify your bad and fake results.

Maybe he read this:

yes, I confess, thanatos is a my alt .....to be precise belzebu is an alt of thanatos considering that i joined WL with thanatos and after with belzebutt., but this is not the only way that I used to cheat ladder and pump my ladder rating, I also used the pw of gabriele (an old italian friend) to watch his picks ...my win against azazel its a cheat...i have ask to him to let me win when i was going to lose.....i tought it was pretty obvious , he completely smashed his armies against my armies and let me break sa with only 2.... http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5929471


you're probably wondering ...... why I confess all this?

because now its irrelevant, all that matter in WL is the resume, and i have it! so i declare myself , the greater thanatos , a living legend and the best player ever!!

And missed the sarcasm