I got another idea for a potential change in CL 10.

In every sport league it's the case that a dropped out team will be replaced by the best of the relegated teams. Just here it comes into play, that the relegated teams still relegate, while the 3th and sometimes even 4th place of the lower league will promote instead.

Before this season Apex dropped out of CL. They would have played in A, so One got promoted into Division A instead, while GG as the best of the 2 relegated Clans needed to go down.

First of all One did a great job and showed, that they belong to A, but One was just 1 point ahead of VIW last season in Division B. Do u think it would have been a great idea to relegate GG and promote VIW because Apex dropped out?

I think it would be actually better, if CL gets more leaned towards real sport leagues in that regard and therefor replace dropped out Clans with the best relegated clans, than replace them with the 3th/4th placed team of the lower division.

Edited 6/10/2017 14:43:08

@ waka

Well no, because my suggestion only applies if former clan still participates in CL. If a clan doesnt, and its members join other clans, in my suggestion, they can play CL with their new clan.

The underlying idea of the suggestion is to *kind of* "penalyse" players who jump from a clan to another one, likely a stronger or more famous one. Basically the change of clan would have to be more motivated due to such a constraint to handle. And isnt this what we want ? Loyal players to their clan, and if they do change, they think of it carefully beforehand, and don't plan to jump to clans every so and then ? Well, this is not what CL is supposed to be about, but if this is something community agrees on, only CL can help achieve this. But right now, I seem to be alone, so this will probably be my last post on the subject.

Also, this was originally to answer one of the Alts issue. Clan benefiting from a one shot bunch of alts that will not return the season after, this is quite unfair competition for other clans, and the clan will suffer the season after if he artificially promoted thanks to alts. Such rule may make Alts think twice before helping out a clan for a one shot season.

Edited 6/10/2017 14:47:08

I agree with rakleader that boots affect more players than just the booted ones, so I'll post my suggestion again (since the thread got derailed quickly after that).

Let's not look at boots as a punishment only for the booted team. It affects the whole division. When someone boots against clan X and then wins against Y, it renders the competition unfair and less interesting.

Therefore, if there's a possibility to reduce the number of boots, it should be used. I think adding banked boot times of 1 day to games would be a good move. Or maybe even less, like 12 hours. Not 5 days, that's ridiculous. Autoboot stays at 3 so you have to play your turns in same pace as before and banked boot acts like a very limited life saver. And doesn't require coding in clot.

About non-joins though, they do suck, but really there's no excuse for not joining in time. It will be especially true next season, as people should learn their lessons. Redoing games has to be done manually by the panel (or only MotD?) and they have hands full of work already.

Edited 6/10/2017 14:56:05

@Rento,
Rest assured that we will note down all reasonable suggestions and discuss them regardless of how much the thread is derailed. Even hearts and earthquakes cannot stop us!

I was drinking last night... Long story short.. I passed Geography when I should've failed. I now know where earthquakes come from and well hearts? Well that came from when I thought I failed Biology and I did actually well. (There may have been a heart question on it)

Your sober post made less sense than your drunken post :P

Fuck sake.. I can't win sober or drunk..

Since most issues that are currently driving the bulk of clan league have been discussed in this thread I do have some ideas for making Divisions C, D1, and D2 more enjoyable

More rewards for making it to C

Right now if you make it to C the only prize you get is a chance to make it to B and a better seed for next CL's qualifiers, so if you work your butt off and get third that's not much of a prize imo. I don't like the idea of only A and B getting to decide which templates to use each clan league and would prefer that the lower clans get a say or an opportunity to get a say, so why not allow clans that qualified to C the previous clan league the ability to vote for templates as a prize for making that far and a way for the lower clans to get a say in what templates are used?

Make D1 and D2 less boring

I think the format for the seeding of D1 and D2 should make for more competitive divisions. Just like the top 2 clans from the Qs get to play in C, I think the clans that finish 3rd/4th should be put in D1 and 5th/6th in D2. Why? Because as it is you are creating extremely boring divisions that have only a couple clans fighting for 1st in those divisions.

I think

D1 			D2

ACME			FBG
Poon Squad		Olympus
CORP			German Warlords
Preußen Garde		Dutch [NL]
101st			HAWKS
Apprentice		DWF

is more interesting than what we currently have at least in one of the divisions.

This would also make incentives greater to get into D1 since they would be fighting for the higher seed next clan league and would have tougher competition to keep them busy while A, B, and C continue on.

Alts and multi-clan membership is a growing problem.

I think best decision is a rule: no consecutive CL seasons for different clans or with different alts.

CL should strengthen clan system, and people running around through different clans are ruining it. The best example is Blitz. They have very good players, but after unsuccessful CL9 in league A, some players are leaving Blitz. So even though Blitz demotes, CL10 same player from Blitz will fight for MH or GG or any other A leagues clan? Then what is the point in promotion or relegation? It think for any player who participated in CL season, next season can be only in the same clan or in a new clan in qualification division.

That's way too harsh. If a Clan picks a player up and fields him for A then he's obviously good enough. No need for a explicit rule.

@Nemo: this is a bad idea, and you chose a bad example. Blitz isn't being left simply because of having unsuccesful season, it had long ongoing internal problems which culminated just lately. Your proposal would cause more harm than good, forcing people to stay in clan they aren't happy with. I'm not sure what does it actually solve, either. Also I believe there already is a similar rule, that prevents player from playig in clan X, then clan Y next season and clan X yet next one?

@SCG: Strongly agreed. I understand why Q2 would look like it did, but as it is now, stage 2 is like two Q2's squared, except completely irrelevant. This would give much better practice for the clans playing, putting against each other teams that are much closer in skill level.

Edited 6/12/2017 10:22:20

Yeah, I think people are going waaay to far with those "bench a player for a season" rules. One season takes half a year, you can't forbid someone to play for that long for reasons over which they don't have full control. The current rule, that if you played last season for clan X, now you're playing for Y, you can't play for X again next season is sufficient.

@edit Onoma was faster... and I forgot to say, I like SCG's suggestions very much.

Edited 6/12/2017 10:28:48

We'll give people one last day to suggest improvements for CL10. We'll start discussing this thread among ourselves tomorrow.

Problem: More player level breakdown of stats needed

Solution: Development of a Clan League Player Score

The statistic that most people care about is player ranking and how a player ranks relative to every other player.

A simple dynamic formula can achieve an objective score:

((Sum of winning percentages of opponents for games won in clan league) – (Sum of the inverse winning percentage of games lost))/(Total number of games played)

That should effectively rank every player with very few if any ties, since players playing in multiple slots allow for sufficient percentage variation.

bump

We have gone over all suggestions on this thread. Anything which was actionable has been considered and we've come up with the first draft of changes for CL10.

Anything marked (Needs work)* on the CLOT, will will be given high priority. These solutions are conditional to the respective features being implemented in time for CL10.

For more detailed comments on issues not addressed on this post, please see - https://goo.gl/4C3oss

We will discuss all of these changes on a live stream @ https://goo.gl/AaXyxF

---

• Problem : CL is too slow
  Solution : Start the games according to a fixed schedule. Games will be created without taking into account how many games the players already have. Everyone would know when their games will be allocated and clans are able to plan better.(Needs work)*
  
  Tentative schedule:
  

  Groups A/B
  1v1s : 1v1s are split up into two groups of 3 tournaments.
  1st group : 1st game on day 1
              2nd game on day 11
              3rd game on day 21
              4th game on day 31
              5th game on day 41
              6th game on day 51
              MID SEASON REGISTRATION on day 60 (Lasts 2 weeks)
  2nd group : 1st game on day 75
              2nd game on day 85
              3rd game on day 95
              4th game on day 105
              5th game on day 115
              6th game on day 125  
  
  3v3s and  : 1st game on day 1
  2v2s        2nd game on day 25
              3rd game on day 50
              MID SEASON REGISTRATION on day 60 (Lasts 2 weeks)
              4th game on day 75
              5th game on day 100
              6th game on day 125
  
  Group Q
  1v1s     :  1st game on day 1
              2nd game on day 11
              3rd game on day 21
              4th game on day 31
              5th game on day 41
              6th game on day 51
  
  3v3s and  : Game 1 and 2 on day 1
  2v2s        Game 3 and 4 on day 25
              Game 5 and 6 on day 50
  
  Group C/D1/D2 will follow a similar schedule(start date depends on when Q finishes)
  

  
  
  
• Problem : Alts and multi-clan members
  Solution :
  • Every player has to register an account to be used in the Clan League(clans can do it on players' behalf as well). This account can't be changed in subsequent seasons unless they ask the organizers specifically (We will only allow changes if it doesn't appear that they are doing this just to circumvent this rule).
    
  • A player has to be in the clan whenever a game is assigned. If you aren't in the clan it's a loss. Clan managers will need to substitute players who have left their clan(if games haven't been allocated) (Needs work)*
    
  • There will be two registration periods for CL10. The first window will be at the start of the season. The second window will be at the midway point of the season(2 months in). It will last for a period of 2 weeks and gives clans a chance to replace players who have left.
    
  • The substitution limit will be increased to 10 per clan. There are 18 slots in a season. Clans should be able to guarantee some sort of stability, or be penalized for it.
    
  • If a player(who is in P tournaments) transfers from clan X to Y in the mid-season window, they can only represent clan Y in (3-P) tournaments.
    
  • All alts used in CL must be declared publicly.
    
  
  
• Problem : Games being decided by non-joins
  Solution : We've decided to not make changes to the current system. If a player has gone missing and may not be able to join on time, a teammate can use their vacation to "save" them from a boot(similar to in-game). Any game which has a player on vacation is ignored.
  
  
• Problem : Vacations
  Solution : Every player has a 30 day limit on vacations. If a player takes more than 30 days, they are awarded a loss on any game where they're on vacation. (Needs work)*
  
  
• Problem : Notification issues
  Solution : There will be an announcement thread that has weekly updates on administrative items. If there is no activity on the thread on any given week, you should assume that we have nothing new to say.
  
  
• Problem : Limited Slots - B teams
  Solution : No clan may field more than one lineup.
  
  
• Problem : Template Voting - Don't use the STV system
  Solution : All voting mechanisms can be rigged if you know what to expect. The voting system will be hidden from clans until the votes are in. We will pick one of the systems randomly from a list(might use template panel for accountability) and resolve the votes based on that.
  
  
• Problem : Make D1 and D2 less boring
  Solution : Clans that finish 3rd/4th will be put in D1 and 5th/6th in D2.
  

p.s - Please up-vote the post so it is not missed by others.

Edited 7/14/2017 00:25:21

All in all, that sounds great. Especially I am enthusiastic about the fixed schedule.

I am not competly sure about:

Problem : Template Voting - Don't use the STV system
Solution : All voting mechanisms can be rigged if you know what to expect. The voting system will be hidden from clans until the votes are in. We will pick one of the systems randomly from a list(might use template panel for accountability) and resolve the votes based on that.

Through my eyes the votes depend on the voting system, but I would need to see, how different the voting systems are.

Edited 7/10/2017 09:39:38

Oh wow, nice work with this suggestions spreadsheet. Very clear and informative.

That said, could you please elaborate on the template voting change? Why does it need to be changed? It was not listed as a problem in the opening post. I went through the thread again and only one person complained about the system.

All voting mechanisms can be rigged if you know what to expect.

Could you explain how exactly can you rig it? One clan can't just push the template they like, nor can they sabotage a template they don't like, STV doesn't allow that. Isn't that the point?

If you don't like STV, I'm sure people would come up with other ideas, if only this was listed as a problem earlier. I can already suggest the system used in Captains League. Each clan awards 1 point to six 1v1 templates of their choice (3 2v2 templates, 2 3v3 templates). Then you sum up the points and you get the results. How can you possibly rig that? You can't give more than 1 point nor less than 0, so you can't push your favourite template nor block the disliked one.

+1 To voting like Captain's league (described in Rento's post)

except it needs to be done anonymously because some Captains were biased in their votes if they waited to vote last...

I'm quite disappointed that the qualifiers remain two-stage and have not been replaced by a single big qualifier pool with a fixed schedule. :-(

Other than that, looks fine.